Your Influence on the Future of the A&R Community
Hello,
With the introduction of the calendar and the 'listened to' flag as a result of suggestions from within the community, it's very obvious how important your insight into the development of this is. As you use the platform, you probably already have some ideas on what you want to see from this. Although they were two quite simple additions, they are benefitting both us at the label and the artists we have in the community a great deal. For those of you who were having problems using the calendar on a Mac, USE THIS LINK. I will include it in the links section of this page.
So the next question is, as our community is getting bigger what do you expect from it as artists? As mentioned before, this is now the method of demo submission to the label and it is working well. More is getting listened to, presented to A&R and more acts are being investigated through this process.
However, there are further opportunities that exist when using a platform such as this that are well worth investigation and discussion within the A&R blogs.
The first thing I want to do, is hear your ideas on functionality/concepts outside the simple submission process. For example, could more tie-in's with other platforms be established? If so, where and with who? Would you like to see the better acts within Vox being promoted in other ways, such as getting some radio/inclusion in regular syndicated podcast? Has their been a function on another platform that you'd like to see here? Also, with the introduction of services like sellaband, or slicethepie do you think there could be more elements of offering a sliding-scale development for new talent using our resources at hand? Would you even like to see a different kind of label stemming from a community such as this?
This is simply the ideas stage at the moment but there have been a number of discussions within the community which have highlighted some interesting ideas and I would be interested to hear what you think could be done with Vox.
Hope all is well with you
(on behalf of CD)
Comments
That would save a lot of searching through neighborhood links
Not to be negative or anything, and I know you all are busy, but I've yet to see any indication that anyone has listened to anything at my page. There's no "listened to" flags, or comments of any kind on anything of mine...
-Do our songs have to be polished to perfection before they can be heard?
Please, come and check out "Popcorn 2" or "Lost Within A Song" when you get a chance!!!
-They're not perfect, but they're not rubbish.
For the first time in a very long time as a result of what’s being done here the labels are making themselves accessible. While most acts want as much feedback as possible its just refreshing that someone is listening. Music will always be someone else’s opinion.
I was a promoter for 3 years in Coventry and my only brief for local bands was ''get onstage and have a go'' to many venues wanted demo's or demands for 20 people through the door.
I wanted to be seen as a venue for breaking bands and giving them their first gig.
Want I have seemed here so far at Columbia and the efforts by IndieBoy have to applaud. To many labels are aloof. For me as a new Manager this has been the best way for me to expose some of my acts to a label. In the ideal world I would be based in London and able to make a call for an appointment and play tracks to various A&R.
The one thing that really takes up bands and management time is all the various platforms to get your material heard. When I did my Management Diploma at Birmingham Univertsy my Collage lecture John Moystn who had success with The Beat, Fine Young Cannibals and Ocean Colour Scene, said to me on day one of my course ''get a myspace page'' I said no thanks we have a website, why do I need that also...he said you cant afford not to.
Now we have many meaningless sites and even site you have to join to just get a gig!
I think the first label opens its doors and has a open forum with a cross section of people from within the industry and those just outside, will maybe see what is really going on.
Digital distribution has made making music easier and many bands are having ago them self’s, but then finding out that so called bands that have broken as a result of myspace or youtube ect only to find a major label secretly backing the whole makes mockery of bands ''living the dream'' of getting signed just by having a track on a certain website. SEE BELOW
From the Wall Street Journal:
Download This:
YouTube Phenom
Has a Big Secret
Singer Marié Digby Isn't
Quite What She Appears;
'Make People Like Me'
By ETHAN SMITH and PETER LATTMAN
September 6, 2007; Page A1
A 24-year-old singer and guitarist named Marié Digby has been hailed
as proof that the Internet is transforming the world of entertainment.
What her legions of fans don't realize, however, is that Ms. Digby's
career demonstrates something else: that traditional media
conglomerates are going to new lengths to take advantage of the
Internet's ability to generate word-of-mouth buzz.
Ms. Digby's simple, homemade music videos of her performing popular
songs have been viewed more than 2.3 million times on YouTube. Her
acoustic-guitar rendition of the R&B hit "Umbrella" has been featured
on MTV's program "The Hills" and is played regularly on radio stations
in Los Angeles, Sacramento and Portland, Ore. Capping the frenzy, a
press release last week from Walt Disney Co.'s Hollywood Records label
declared: "Breakthrough YouTube Phenomenon Marié Digby Signs With
Hollywood Records."
What the release failed to mention is that Hollywood Records signed
Ms. Digby in 2005, 18 months before she became a YouTube phenomenon.
Hollywood Records helped devise her Internet strategy, consulted with
her on the type of songs she chose to post, and distributed a
high-quality studio recording of "Umbrella" to iTunes and radio
stations.
In an Aug. 16 blog posting on her MySpace page, Ms. Digby wrote: "I
NEVER in a million years thought that doing my little video of
Umbrella in my living room would lead to this . tv shows, itunes, etc
!!!"
WSJ's Peter Lattman explains how musician Marié Digby represents
traditional media conglomerates' attempts at generating word-of-mouth
buzz via the Internet.
Ms. Digby's MySpace and YouTube pages don't mention Hollywood Records.
Until last week, a box marked "Type of Label" on her MySpace Music
page said, "None." After inquiries from The Wall Street Journal, the
entry was changed to "Major," though the label still is not named.
The artist and her label say there's nothing untoward about the
campaign. In interviews, Ms. Digby and executives at the company
describe her three-month string of successes as part of a lengthy
process of laying the groundwork for the upcoming release of her debut
album.
Ms. Digby says she doesn't mention her record label on her Web sites
because "I didn't feel like it was something that was going to make
people like me."
Feigning Amateur Status
Ms. Digby certainly isn't the first professional to feign amateur
status on YouTube. Last year, "LonelyGirl15" was revealed to be a
19-year-old actress, working with filmmakers represented by the
Creative Artists Agency.
The fact that a big company supported Ms. Digby's ruse reflects how
dearly media giants want in on the viral revolution that's changing
how young consumers learn about new entertainment -- even if it means
a tiny bit of sleight-of-hand. It also reflects how difficult it is
for new recording artists to get noticed now that young fans are
paying more attention to Web sites such as Google Inc.'s YouTube and
News Corp.'s MySpace than to traditional media like commercial radio.
The YouTube home page1 for singer Marie Digby.
"There are significant challenges in breaking new artists now, but
there are also amazing opportunities," says Ken Bunt, Hollywood
Records' senior vice president for marketing who helped devise Ms.
Digby's campaign. "People get so mired in the difficulties they don't
say, 'What opportunities does online present?' This is a great example
of an opportunity."
Though all involved say that Hollywood Records' role in her online
rise has been limited, label executives say they did nothing to
discourage Ms. Digby from conveying the impression that she had
stumbled into the spotlight. Ms. Digby says she chose the songs.
Hollywood Records bought the Apple Inc. laptop computer and software
that Ms. Digby -- who lives with her parents in Los Angeles's upscale
Brentwood neighborhood -- used to post her YouTube videos. Her version
of "Umbrella" that is being sold at Apple's iTunes Store is a
high-quality studio recording made in June by Hollywood Records, which
also made it available to radio stations.
Ms. Digby, whose exotic looks reflect her Japanese and Irish heritage,
began writing songs as a high-school student and set off in search of
a music career during her freshman year at the University of
California, Berkeley. She says she found herself flying back to Los
Angeles almost every week to play solo gigs at open-microphone nights
at clubs. At age 19, she left Berkeley and concentrated full-time on
music.
While Ms. Digby won regular bookings at nightclubs, things didn't
begin to click until a chance encounter with Barry Krost, a music
manager whose past clients have included Cat Stevens. He took her on
as a client and in early 2005 secured her a publishing deal with
Rondor Music, a publisher that is part of Vivendi SA's Universal Music
Group.
In late 2005, Ron Moss, Rondor's executive vice president, connected
Ms. Digby to a Hollywood Records executive named Allison Hamamura, who
was immediately taken with the singer. Before the year was out,
Hollywood Records had signed Ms. Digby. Since then, the label has
worked with the singer on her debut album of original songs. The album
was produced by Tom Rothrock, who also recorded a recent hit record by
British singer James Blunt.
Once the album was completed late last year, Ms. Digby and her label
began looking for ways to gain visibility. "I was coming out of
nowhere," Ms. Digby says. "I wanted to find a way to get some
exposure."
That's when the idea of posting simple videos of cover songs came up.
"No one's going to be searching for Marié Digby, because no one knows
who she is," Mr. Bunt, the Hollywood Records senior vice president,
reasoned. So she posted covers of hits by Nelly Furtado and Maroon 5,
among others, so that users searching for those artists' songs would
stumble on hers instead. Her version of Rihanna's "Umbrella" proved a
nearly instant hit.
A YOUTUBE STAR'S SECRET
Marié Digby's homemade YouTube music videos, in which she covers
popular songs and sings her own compositions, helped launch her
career. But the 24-year-old singer and guitarist had help from a
record label. Below, links to some of her YouTube videos:
• "Umbrella" by Rihanna2
• "What I've Done" by Linkin Park3
• "Makes Me Wonder" by Maroon 54
Plus, see more of Ms. Digby's videos on her YouTube channel5.
The Lucky Nobody
As Ms. Digby's star rose, other media outlets played along. When Los
Angeles adult-contemporary station KYSR-FM, which calls itself "Star
98.7," interviewed Ms. Digby in July, she and the disc jockey
discussed her surprising success. "We kind of found her on YouTube,"
the DJ, known as Valentine, said. Playing the lucky nobody, Ms. Digby
said: "I'm usually the listener calling in, you know, just hoping that
I'm going to be the one to get that last ticket to the Star Lounge
with [pop star] John Mayer!" The station's programming executives now
acknowledge they had booked Ms. Digby's appearance through Hollywood
Records, and were soon collaborating with the label to sell "Umbrella"
as a single on iTunes.
"We did discover this artist through YouTube," says KYSR Program
Director Charese Fruge. The DJ couldn't be reached for comment.
"I don't think we need a television show to find talent in America,"
crowed NBC late-night talk show host Carson Daly, introducing a
performance by Ms. Digby last month. "We have the Internet." Mr.
Daly's music booker, Diana Miller, says she booked the singer through
Hollywood Records' public-relations department.
At the show's taping, Ms. Digby gave a backstage interview that was
posted online by NBC. "I just did this YouTube video two months ago
and never, ever imagined that it would actually get me on TV or radio
or anything like that," she said. "I just did it in my living room and
it blew up first on YouTube and then I guess it got to Star 98.7 and
then Carson Daly found me so that's why I'm here."
Most of Ms. Digby's new fans seem pleased to believe that they
discovered an underground sensation. A YouTube user posting a message
in response to a cover of Linkin Park's "What I've Done" wrote, "you
truely have talent! get urself out there...if u really wanted im
positive u could land some sick record deals!! id buy a CD 4 sure!"
At a concert last week at a Los Angeles nightclub called the Hotel
Cafe, Ms. Digby played to a sold-out crowd of young fans. Even with
the club's handful of tables reserved for Hollywood Records executives
and their guests, Ms. Digby continued to play the ingénue. Introducing
"Umbrella," Ms. Digby told the audience: "I just turned on my little
iMovie, and here I am!"
At least wants happening here is REAL, A&R are listening and above all a healthy debate is going on . I would love to be as involved as anyone on any forum.
Stewart
Emsar Management
No worries, the listened to flag was only introduced a few days ago. If they're older tracks that have already been listened to, they may not get the tag. However, if they're newer, they'll get listened to. Did you submit them to the A&R group?
IB
Good concept. We do have one at the side. In addition to simple random play and link to the page, would there be anything else you'd like to see? Or should we just keep it simple with a no-nonsense interface?
thanks for the suggestion.
IB
Oh, cool! I have reposted them on my page for everyone's convenience, but I have not yet submitted them to the A&R group. -I will go do that right now!
Thank you for your good feedback! I look forward to discussing more ideas with you!
I suppose this brings up the question of "Number of plays" and all that goes with it.
Some developments in this area would help make the "click myspace" brigade something to think about.
Maybe the A&R people could make a short list of acts they are considering signing, and present them to Voxers for input. Maybe a couple of spaces could be reserved for wildcard artists, who would be chosen by the community to be considered. My concern is that there may be some fantastic artists on here who, because of their lack of promotional ability, are being largely ignored. It's a continuation of my position that there needs to be room in the industry for real artists. There have always been gimmicky acts who have generated buzz and, because they were so good at self-promotion, were able to break through. But there needs to be room for someone like, say, Ron Sexsmith, who doesn't fit the look or image, isn't an attention whore, and who just writes decent music. In that way, I'd love to see a return to the passionate A&R - someone who loves the music of a given artist and fights to get that artist exposure. Someone who develops an artist and recognizes talent and nurtures it, thereby bringing a great artist to a world that might otherwise overlook him or her because their myspace page wasn't cool enough.
Despite all of the drum-banging about the death of the labels and the death of the oppressive music industry, there is no real democratization of the process except for the few, the opinionated, the outspoken. The majority of us still look to the labels to be the arbiters of taste, to provide us with good music, be it throwaway tunes or timeless classics. I'll repeat what I said in another comment because I think it bears it: the artists on here, even the ones who slag you to your face, still want your approval and support. They want you to make them larger than life. Reclaim that power. Have some balls. Throw your money around and develop us some future classics. Tell us what's good, what's next, and who you believe in. You asked if we want to see a different kind of label. My answer is yes, but not something based on an internet fad. The different kind of label I want to see is one that looks for career artists - real talent - and nurtures and develops them for the love of music. The more you sit by and do nothing, scared of the future, the more you look like the outdated, dying old behemoth that so many say you are.
In an ideal world I want access to the following (bear with me I said ideal world)
1 - Promotional team (maybe paid on a commission kind of basis)- or at least someone I speak to about submitting music to radio stations / internet buzz / how to follow up /mailing lists etc...
2 - Feedback on songs submitted (I understand why this can't be done at present but can feedback be left on songs you do like?)
3 - Help with gigs - know any promoters etc that you can put us in touch with? Can we do some support slots with similar sounding artists who are on your books? Who gets to decide support slots?
4 - How about turning Vox into a kind of Magnatune service - 50/50 split but then we get your help with promotion?
5 - When gigs are added to the calendar can it automatically send an email to other Voxers in my area to let them know? Likewise if an Voxer is playing in manchester I want to know about it.
6 - Can we send any questions in to you / someone else in the A and R community? How open are you to being approached through Vox?
All in all I'd say I want to see more on the promotion and services side. I know you can't send out 4000 recording contracts tomorrow but there is some amazing talent on here who should be given a fair crack of the whip. Copyright Vox Records anyone?
More often than not, only sources like MySpace, GarageBands and a few others are tapped when scouting for new talent in the online space. What you need to recognize is that there are entirely new meta-industries out there that are doing the work of "finding new talent" for you.
Take a few examples;
Amie Street (amiestreet.com) - Why not find out which Indies are selling well on Amie Street? Because of the way their model works, music that does well on Amie Street is music that -actual- consumers -want- to buy. This sort of data is invaluable.
Grooveshark / Last.fm (grooveshark.com) - I work for Grooveshark, so I am a little biased but models like Last.fm and Grooveshark do all the work of creating metrics for you. You can see which artists are selling music, who is listening to it and all the demographics surrounding it. Again, this goes back to making it easier for you to find artists that already have some traction with -real people-.
YouTube, Vox, Myspace etc... - All of these are great places to discover musicians that already have large amounts of fan support. I am sure you have already taken steps in this direction but you need to look at it in terms of saturation. If a musician is able to, without any marketing muscle, get a large following on one of these networks -- chances are very good that they could get some success in the wider market.
In general, I think that A&R professionals would do well to take more time to explore the web. Contact these companies, see if they can provide you with metrics about what is selling well. Work with those who are doing some of the number crunching for you, and use that information to make scouting for talent easier.
I hope this helps, contact me if you need anything else.
Cheers,
Steve Spalding
How To Split An Atom
Editor
First of all I'd like to say thanks for inviting me to comment, I hope I can contribute something that gets a few brain cells sparking up.
I have to say that once again, I agree wholeheartedly with Freddy, who appears to have already made many of the points I had in mind on reading the original post. I signed up to this website for one reason, and one reason only. On the Columbia records website, it says this is the new demo submission method. I joined up and posted my songs because I want the attention of the A&R folks at a label whose roster includes many of the artists I respect most (Dylan, Springsteen et al.). As Freddy says, what I want from this website, in an ideal world, is an email that says "We've listened to your music and we think it's fucking fantastic, please accept this shiny million-pound record deal". Note that I said *ideal world*. I know good and well that the process is absolutely not that simple - my father, a record producer by trade, was deeply involved in the music industry for many years (he was among the founders of Virgin) and I fully understand the complexity behind the scenes.
So naturally I instantly saw this community for what, if we're all honest, it is - a very shrewd, very clever bid by a major label to feel out the significance of the supposedly drastic climate change among musicians and their audience, to hear it straight from the horse's mouth and, in a discussion exactly like this one, find out what needs to be done for the company to survive and thrive in the current boom of independence.
Now to refer back to another point Freddy made, about A&R men having the balls to take something they think is excellent and simply do their damnedest to make sure everyone else gets to hear it simply because it's fantastic. Let's look at an example. Take John Hammond - who really ought to be the role model for all A&R men, at Columbia and everywhere else. This is the man that signed Dylan, Leonard Cohen, and countless others. It is my absolutely solid belief that neither of the above artists, if they were coming about today, would stand a single chance in hell of getting noticed. They're not fashion-conscious, they're not trendy, they don't get spotted snogging supermodels, and they don't even have conventionally great singing voices. What they *are*, is the two best songwriters in the world. They are artists. They write the kind of songs that change people's lives irreversibly. John Hammond knew this, and he pushed them because he knew what the world needed was great artists. Dylan changed the *entire music world* irreversibly. And yet at the beginning, nobody in the music business would touch him with a barge pole. He could barely get a gig. They called him "Hammond's Folly", because he was in no way an obviously commercial investment.
The point I'm getting around to making here is that what you guys need to do is keep your eyes absolutely focused on precisely what you're here for - to find the talent and to help it grow and develop. I make absolutely no bones about saying that I fall squarely in the middle of the category of the dedicated artist who has absolutely no ability for self-promotion whatsoever. I can shamelessly say that I *need* someone to handle the PR for me. I know that my songs are great - they're great because I dedicate my entire being to making them great, and using my voice to get them across to the listener with as much power as possible. Just the other day, I got an email from a stranger saying they'd listened to my album and wept because it was so beautiful. As an artist, I LIVE for moments like that and I wish I had the resources to get the music to more people - but I don't have the ability, or even the desire, to spend hours staring at a computer screen signing up to various services, sending emails to mailing lists and trying to get people's attention. My self-promotional know-how extends as far as emailing the occasional promoter to set up a few gigs. I can't do it myself because I'm just not that sort of person, and as far as I'm concerned the reason major labels exist now is to help people like me, who simply aren't equipped to push themselves in the way that the independent crowd can.
To answer your original question, then, what you can do with this community is demonstrate to the music world, on a personal level, straight to the artists and the fans themselves, what it is that makes the major label approach different from, and equally as valuable as the independent method. It seems to me that by asking what features we want on the website, you're losing sight of the fact that we're not here because we want website features that we ourselves can take advantage of - we're here simply because we want YOU to notice us, and offer the promotional services, resources and opportunities that many of us are not, ourselves, capable of creating because we're just not that good at it on a personal level.
So what features do I want? Maybe a flag that says "This member of A&R personnel is especially interested in you". Just a box that the A&R team can check to let us know that we're paying paid attention to - just knowing that my music has been *heard* doesn't make me any more confident that I'm any closer to making it. After all, you might have just listened to the first 10 seconds and skipped it. Ultimately, even if it turns out you're *not* interested, give those people a message saying "Sorry, your music is not being considered". It sounds terribly harsh, but it's better than keeping people stringing along indefinitely, hoping that you'll notice them eventually.
While I think it's admirable that you're putting people in touch with SLicethepie and all the rest, you're actually in danger of putting yourselves out of business by trying to *appeal* to the independent crowd, because they're the ones who *already know* that they don't need you. Keep your eyes on the goal - to find the talent, create personal relationships with them, and ultimately sign them.
Thanks for the invite IB! heres a few suggestions I can offer at this second...
1) I know that Columbia/RCA has it's focus more on UK artists, which is cool, but why aren't your outlets in other countries involved in this? (Hello, USA???)
I've heard some GREAT music here on VOX, but they aren't all in the UK. USA, Canada, Japan to name a few...
I think an artist search shouldn't be so regionally limited. -You'll miss out on some music with potential that deserves to be heard.
2) A "time-stamped flag" is a nice start, but it doesn't really say much to an artist, or artist wanna-be. Personally, I don't see any sense in working a song to death to get a better recording if I don't know if anyone even liked it. No one really needs a "pat on the back", but maybe some sort of supportive comment, or constructive criticism would help us in our creativities.
3) Kang's calander is FANTASTIC, and just what you all needed!!!! -Great job there Kang! -I like SILO's idea of an automatic e-mail being sent out to interested Voxers, but instead of it being sent as a date is added, which could potentially FLOOD everyone's inboxes, I think the ENTIRE monthly calander, or week-by-week updates should be E-Mailed to all interested Voxers. -Like a subscription to a weekly calander.
4) Offer low budgeted artists a grant to improve their skills and gear.
That's all for right this second, but as I think up more, I'll be happy to let you know! Thank you for this opportunity to be heard both musically and vocally!
Lads,
I reckon theres alot of whinging going on from bands and artists about their music not getting listened to. Theres no point in blaming Indieboy, Ged, Mike etc saying stuff along the lines of ....'Im fed up, theres nobody listening to my music, what kind of a&r men are ye'........
jaysus what do you expect??Some bands and artists are basically crap, shit, gick. Do you want a&r reps to write back to you and go ' listen thank you for chosing sony music. Unfortunately at this time we find your music crap, awful and frankly you are a pain in the arse as you keep messaging me as you obviously think you have good music. well u fucking dont'............
Im not saying my music is any better, frankly im probably crap but i dont loose sleep over it so dont expect anything. Im solely convinced if your music is really outstanding and different you will be heard. I remember years ago meeting andy ross of food records in london. He discovered blur. I was only 19 or 20 full of band attitude with a cassette demo of my first band sitting in his office saying 'listen to this, its great'...his look was priceless..he looked at my tape and then told me to look at the 3 stacks of cassettes piled up next to his office desk. 'erhh yeah right, see those tapes, thats what arrived in last week and i havent listened to any of them..gimme a break he said...
basically theres no way on earth the a@r men on this comminity can listen to everything. However This is by far the best route for them to access music immediately.
The music business is 'the whole package now' and from a psychological background good songs sound even better songs when they have brilliant videos with them. I think a new avenue for the community would be to put a focus on artists and bands to acompany their great songs with some videos. Im not talking about boring videos of bands playing live in camden town, London for 3 mins. We are living in a technology era whereby bands can make videos of quality with themes running through them.Push yourselves more. I often compare being in a band to being an athlete. Theres always somebody better than you so train harder, work harder. That motto could be said of the music business. Yes theres a certain amount of luck but luck is running out nowadays as theres less people out there in positions to sign us artists to major labels. Thus ending our dreams of being rich rockstars,..bolix.. work harder like the athlete..
Indieboy hot the nail on the head during the week saying theres alot of similarities with the music and film business. Too bloody right, they go hand in hand.I reckon you have a much better chance of attracting a label if you can deliver the full package. Get your band of their arse and get out there, put the directors head cap on and make a good video to accompany your great music. Even the crap bands have a better chance of being noticed if you had a decent video. Maybe the community and indieboy could look to promoting bands with videos more.
Alot of the music business i reckon is 'the emperors new clothes'. I reckon alot of things in life are the emperors new clothes. If 200 people started walking down the main street in dublin with dish clothes and cotton buds sticking out of the noses before long everyone would be going 'jaysus thats looks alright doesnt it'. Same with music and videos. Once one person says jes this video is excellent, this band is good, often it catches on real fast....and you get noticed!!!
I do have one criticism of indieboy and many of the other a&r men who work in london. Yes i know you live and work there and it is were you socialise but from an a&r perspective i reckon you spend far too much time in Camden. If i was a budding a@r scout i would be sleazing around leeds, sheffield, edinburgh, glasgow, Dublin, cork, Aberdeen, Manchester and liverppol looking for unpolished gems as they are there................i know i know junior a&r scouts havent got the dough either but like the band and the athlete who need to push harder i often think the a&r guy does too, and camden town in london aint the only place in the universe..
food for thought
India 99
If the labels are gonna drop the anonymous thing, and actually interact with people via online access and showcasing like Vox, then we as artists gotta stop being crybabies when they aren't listening to us.
These people are coming online, telling us who they are, and cruising through the community for THEIR benefit. We agree to play that game. Part of that is understanding that the professional music industry is still incredibly difficult to break into, despite what chuckleheads like Simon Flippin Cowell and his ilk are up to. Not everybody is good enough.
Maybe not even "you". Still, you get points for putting your shit out there, and possibly earning friends and fans throughout the community. That itself is a reward.
But I would really love to see people relax on the "NOBODY IS PAYING ATTENTION TO ME" shit. It's not good for what this place is supposed to be for.
Thanks very much for the post India99. There has been a lot of talk about blanket commenting. It's actually harder to comment on something that's a bit crap as you spend ages trying to keep things constructive, when at times it's very difficult. I've actually been thinking about the possiblity of having online 'scouts' recruited from within Vox to help out with this.
Very true about me and Camden, I spend a lot of time in North London and Manchester, as that's the territory that easily accessable to me. Don't worry too much though as the likes of MikeP, Marc and Gigadance travel all over the country, and beyond when meeting new acts.
Thanks DK,
Each territory as it's own A&R strategy. The UK I think is still the only one to have an online A&R thing of this nature, though other territories have started similar. I believe that Epic in NY have been working with musicnation, which is similar but based around a competition model, whereas other european territories have then own online submissions processes. One day I'm hoping that the whole process could be centralised with information being forwarded on to the relevant territories, each having it's own access. It is still early days for this process and in comparison to other sites the community is still quite small. As this develops it's going to be interesting to see if this can be pused beyond it's inital juristiction.
As for the issue of commenting on everything, I and others did try to comment on just about everything that came in. After a while it became harder and harder. Plus there's nothing more frustrating than struggling to come up with a comment on something that isn't great. On top of that, I found I was repeating myself a lot which looks like I was pasting comments which would essentially render them perceived as worthless anyway. I think the current system, although not perfect for everyone, works well. Essentially it's getting listened to with the best getting to the right people. As for artistic encouragement you could possibly look to other areas within the community such as other artists, management, music review (there are a couple of review blogs in Vox) etc.
The calendar thing is a 3rd party tool that I found. So I can't develop it that much. I could post a screen grab each week on one of the blogs or simply a link to remind people to look as anyone has access. I've been thinking about some kind of podcast so maybe gigs could be announced on that.
As for grants I don't think it's feasable at present. But artist development does still exist as regards sticking them in rehearsal/recording, helping them out to see what happens. There are various schemes out their I believe to help financially struggling musicians for organisations in various territories.
Keeping simple is good as long as everything is covered.
As for the 'What this member has been listening to' do you means the favourites section? I didn't realise anyone viewed mine, that's nice to know. I will try and start highlighting people's favourites.
The number of plays thing was originally something that I discouraged as I didn't want any competative nature to the community. As many people know from myspace, pageviews don't necessarily reflect quality. However, a few people have been asking about how to track their traffic as they use their blog as a promotional tool and want to know how many people they're reaching. I will speak to Vox regarding this and see if it can be an optional tool.
There's an awful lot of ideas on this thread, many of which I'm finding very encouraging. I can't comment on everything that's been discussed but I do have a couple of points to make based on what I would like to see from a site such as this.
I think one of the main advantages to this site, as apose to MySpace or facebook or whoever, is that you can have an active dialogue with music industry professionals. I find with MySpace and Facebook and similar, its more about communicating with fans, friends and other media - for example, we've got a very active MySpace page but its not somewhere I'd feel comfortable taking about the industry, or the direction of our music, or what deals are on the table, because its too "public" - does that make sense? We are in showbis, we don't want the mechanics of it too become too obvious, it destroys the magic. I'd much rather run a blog that I know is plugged into the industry and develop the band through talking to people who's job it is to develop bands. Bands that are developing in interesting directions could then go on to be signed by the label, and it would be a good way for the label to keep track of talent and know what they will want and need when it comes to putting something on the table. The MySpace page is a bit like being on stage - its about people enjoying what you've got to offer right now, great photos, good times, good music etc. It's your online showcase. We shouldn't try to duplicate that on vox, it's pointless doing things twice and time has to be shared between music making, promotion and our bloody day jobs!!! So Vox is about development, and MySpace is about where we are right now - who agrees with that?
I really like the idea of putting together podcasts based on submissions to this site which could then do the rounds for radio play, tastemakers and what have you, possibly with some mechanism for feedback, with the emphasis being on encouraging professionals to engage with bands in a dialogue via the vox network i.e. again, its the whole "development" angle. It could allow artists the opportunity to be heard by people they otherwise wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance of reaching and not be dismissed straightaway because its not a finished product.
There was a comment about including number of plays and other counters to the site and to be honest I'm not in favour of that - I think these things can be very misleading as to the quality or potential of an act - its bad enough on MySpace when you see a band has got 6000 friends and 600 plays and then you realise that they've spent all day clicking on random people and "fixing" the result to make it look good. come on, we've ALL done that from time to time, haven't we.... admit it!! I don't think we should be "competative" - "collaborative" is the word here. And only through "collaboration" will we see this rennaissance that we have been discussing.
I've just discovered this "sellaband" thing and it looks interesting - but I can't help but think its yet one more thing to have to think about, log into and faff about on. I appreciate its great having all these opportunities, but bloody hell, I just can't keep up! If this site could help link us all up to these other sites, and save a bit of time, then thats all for the good, because, as somebody commented above, we can't afford not to get involved. Some sort of shared functionality. New pages like this seem to crop up every day and its just ridiculous to expect the artist to do all this leg work themselves and come up with good material.
Blanket commenting - waste of time - i never expected anybody to reply to a physical demo that I sent out if they didn't like it, so why should it be any different on here. Nobody ever says "no" in the music industry anyway, they just don't say anything at all, and that often means "no" until you start doing well, then it becomes a "yes"!! A regular, interesting blog (and I don't mean one that just says "aren't we good" all the time) is much more likely to yeild interest, because if you've got something to say, there's more chance your music has got something to say as well.
Scouts from the community - not sure about that - just doesn't feel right - don't know why.
So, only the UK is running a this sort of thing for submissions - interesting - well lets lead the way, I say, and make it work. Its certainly got off to a cracking start with nearly 4000 submissions. That's alot of music.
I think I'll leave it there for now.
Quick plug - its our InThe City gig on Sunday - see blog for details!
best wishes,
Ben
Thank you for answering to my suggestions, but first I wanted to comment on one thing you posted in a comment above (beginning with "Excellent post...")
There's nothing wrong with you all blogging about any certain band you just signed, this is their music and why you signed them, but hopefully you can do that without encouraging people to become "clones" of your newly signed act.
Like rap "artists"... One group got it right, now everyone sounds just like them. -There doesn't seem to be any real musical creativity in rap anymore, because everyone is trying to match the same formula that worked for an original artist.
I say discourage cloning, and promote originality!
Ok. in reply to your answer for me... Firstly, I'm with you. I'd also like to see this online thing become centralized with info being forwarded to reps in their respective territories. I think that alone could ease an artists frustrations a lot. I don't care for the competition models like the one you mentioned... -There's too many "losers" that way, much more disappointment for artists, and only a handful of acts actually getting anywhere.
Next, you're right. -I'm sure it's initially impossible to comment on everyone's music, but I guess maybe I'm inadvertantly "rushing the process" some by wondering about a songs follow-up. I guess what I'm saying is a time stamp is a GREAT idea, but it just seems a little cold, and it may give an artist some false hope. But personally, I'd like to see a time stamp on my songs rather than nothing...
Third: I have another idea for Kang's Calendar. I know it's not yours and you can't make changes, but how's this: Keep the calandar as it is, but making it so that we can all have the calandar on our pages. -Acts go to the original calendar to post their gigs, but as they're added, the versions on our pages get updated as the gigs are added. Also, maybe do regional versions of the calendar so we can see gigs in the UK, gigs in the US, or wherever they may be.
Lastly, grants. (grins) I couldn't help but ask. Personally, I'd prefer session work over the typical band thing. The problem is I haven't read music since high school, and even then, it was for a Baritone, not a guitar or piano.
I play, and create my music by ear, and most professional companies frown on that. -Maybe some don't care about one's ability to read music, and I just don't know it, but I'm not aware of any. Ah well, the search continues.
Thank you again, for responding to our ideas and questions so well. It is appreciated here!
DK
Hi Folks,
I think this is encouraging! As an artiste I'd just like to say that it's all I can do to get enough time to do a good job of writing and recording songs which I think are good enough to be submitted. That doesn't mean I think they couldn't be better - because I don't think any of us would ever stop fiddling with a mix if someone else didn't shout "enough already!" at some point. That's what being a creative type carries with it. Therefore, I have very little time to do the stuff I'm no good at - which as you'd expect is the business and promo side of it. We can't be good at everyhting - and we rely on you guys to be good at the business and promo for us. I just can't get enough time or creative ebergy stored aside to put it into thinking up new and interesting blog posts every day - sorry. If I have any surplus creative anergy - it all goes into my music. Why my music isn't better - or more appealing is another story - and I'm sure you know what is commercially acceptable and what isn't - so I wouldn't dream of arguing with you on that one!
What I'd appreciate is if you could take into account any existing work we're doing on the promo side - say on Myspace. I know there's a whole debate about whether Myspace is a waste of time - but for promo dunces like me its very easy to use, and every so often you run into a real person on there who gives some useful feedback. For instance - I have managed to get together over 3000 'friends' there - and have had approaching 6000 plays. People come back again and again to play my songs. I know a lot about where my best appeal lies from this. I go down like a bag of crud in the UK, but amongst American women between about 30 and 98 years old - I get a pretty good response. I even get a reasonable response from Chinese men, and women. In Australia I get a good response from women of all ages, but nothing from men - no matter how hard I try.
I only have one lifetime, and each day there are only 24 hours - so I just can't do it all again with another platform like Vox. There's another one just out I see called Beta Records. Here we go again, I've registered, but I won't have time to go out there and bombard listene