Your Influence on the Future of the A&R Community
Hello,
With the introduction of the calendar and the 'listened to' flag as a result of suggestions from within the community, it's very obvious how important your insight into the development of this is. As you use the platform, you probably already have some ideas on what you want to see from this. Although they were two quite simple additions, they are benefitting both us at the label and the artists we have in the community a great deal. For those of you who were having problems using the calendar on a Mac, USE THIS LINK. I will include it in the links section of this page.
So the next question is, as our community is getting bigger what do you expect from it as artists? As mentioned before, this is now the method of demo submission to the label and it is working well. More is getting listened to, presented to A&R and more acts are being investigated through this process.
However, there are further opportunities that exist when using a platform such as this that are well worth investigation and discussion within the A&R blogs.
The first thing I want to do, is hear your ideas on functionality/concepts outside the simple submission process. For example, could more tie-in's with other platforms be established? If so, where and with who? Would you like to see the better acts within Vox being promoted in other ways, such as getting some radio/inclusion in regular syndicated podcast? Has their been a function on another platform that you'd like to see here? Also, with the introduction of services like sellaband, or slicethepie do you think there could be more elements of offering a sliding-scale development for new talent using our resources at hand? Would you even like to see a different kind of label stemming from a community such as this?
This is simply the ideas stage at the moment but there have been a number of discussions within the community which have highlighted some interesting ideas and I would be interested to hear what you think could be done with Vox.
Hope all is well with you
(on behalf of CD)
Neighborhood
Explore friends, family, friends & family, or entire neighborhood.
Comments
That would save a lot of searching through neighborhood links
Not to be negative or anything, and I know you all are busy, but I've yet to see any indication that anyone has listened to anything at my page. There's no "listened to" flags, or comments of any kind on anything of mine...
-Do our songs have to be polished to perfection before they can be heard?
Please, come and check out "Popcorn 2" or "Lost Within A Song" when you get a chance!!!
-They're not perfect, but they're not rubbish.
For the first time in a very long time as a result of what’s being done here the labels are making themselves accessible. While most acts want as much feedback as possible its just refreshing that someone is listening. Music will always be someone else’s opinion.
I was a promoter for 3 years in Coventry and my only brief for local bands was ''get onstage and have a go'' to many venues wanted demo's or demands for 20 people through the door.
I wanted to be seen as a venue for breaking bands and giving them their first gig.
Want I have seemed here so far at Columbia and the efforts by IndieBoy have to applaud. To many labels are aloof. For me as a new Manager this has been the best way for me to expose some of my acts to a label. In the ideal world I would be based in London and able to make a call for an appointment and play tracks to various A&R.
The one thing that really takes up bands and management time is all the various platforms to get your material heard. When I did my Management Diploma at Birmingham Univertsy my Collage lecture John Moystn who had success with The Beat, Fine Young Cannibals and Ocean Colour Scene, said to me on day one of my course ''get a myspace page'' I said no thanks we have a website, why do I need that also...he said you cant afford not to.
Now we have many meaningless sites and even site you have to join to just get a gig!
I think the first label opens its doors and has a open forum with a cross section of people from within the industry and those just outside, will maybe see what is really going on.
Digital distribution has made making music easier and many bands are having ago them self’s, but then finding out that so called bands that have broken as a result of myspace or youtube ect only to find a major label secretly backing the whole makes mockery of bands ''living the dream'' of getting signed just by having a track on a certain website. SEE BELOW
From the Wall Street Journal:
Download This:
YouTube Phenom
Has a Big Secret
Singer Marié Digby Isn't
Quite What She Appears;
'Make People Like Me'
By ETHAN SMITH and PETER LATTMAN
September 6, 2007; Page A1
A 24-year-old singer and guitarist named Marié Digby has been hailed
as proof that the Internet is transforming the world of entertainment.
What her legions of fans don't realize, however, is that Ms. Digby's
career demonstrates something else: that traditional media
conglomerates are going to new lengths to take advantage of the
Internet's ability to generate word-of-mouth buzz.
Ms. Digby's simple, homemade music videos of her performing popular
songs have been viewed more than 2.3 million times on YouTube. Her
acoustic-guitar rendition of the R&B hit "Umbrella" has been featured
on MTV's program "The Hills" and is played regularly on radio stations
in Los Angeles, Sacramento and Portland, Ore. Capping the frenzy, a
press release last week from Walt Disney Co.'s Hollywood Records label
declared: "Breakthrough YouTube Phenomenon Marié Digby Signs With
Hollywood Records."
What the release failed to mention is that Hollywood Records signed
Ms. Digby in 2005, 18 months before she became a YouTube phenomenon.
Hollywood Records helped devise her Internet strategy, consulted with
her on the type of songs she chose to post, and distributed a
high-quality studio recording of "Umbrella" to iTunes and radio
stations.
In an Aug. 16 blog posting on her MySpace page, Ms. Digby wrote: "I
NEVER in a million years thought that doing my little video of
Umbrella in my living room would lead to this . tv shows, itunes, etc
!!!"
WSJ's Peter Lattman explains how musician Marié Digby represents
traditional media conglomerates' attempts at generating word-of-mouth
buzz via the Internet.
Ms. Digby's MySpace and YouTube pages don't mention Hollywood Records.
Until last week, a box marked "Type of Label" on her MySpace Music
page said, "None." After inquiries from The Wall Street Journal, the
entry was changed to "Major," though the label still is not named.
The artist and her label say there's nothing untoward about the
campaign. In interviews, Ms. Digby and executives at the company
describe her three-month string of successes as part of a lengthy
process of laying the groundwork for the upcoming release of her debut
album.
Ms. Digby says she doesn't mention her record label on her Web sites
because "I didn't feel like it was something that was going to make
people like me."
Feigning Amateur Status
Ms. Digby certainly isn't the first professional to feign amateur
status on YouTube. Last year, "LonelyGirl15" was revealed to be a
19-year-old actress, working with filmmakers represented by the
Creative Artists Agency.
The fact that a big company supported Ms. Digby's ruse reflects how
dearly media giants want in on the viral revolution that's changing
how young consumers learn about new entertainment -- even if it means
a tiny bit of sleight-of-hand. It also reflects how difficult it is
for new recording artists to get noticed now that young fans are
paying more attention to Web sites such as Google Inc.'s YouTube and
News Corp.'s MySpace than to traditional media like commercial radio.
The YouTube home page1 for singer Marie Digby.
"There are significant challenges in breaking new artists now, but
there are also amazing opportunities," says Ken Bunt, Hollywood
Records' senior vice president for marketing who helped devise Ms.
Digby's campaign. "People get so mired in the difficulties they don't
say, 'What opportunities does online present?' This is a great example
of an opportunity."
Though all involved say that Hollywood Records' role in her online
rise has been limited, label executives say they did nothing to
discourage Ms. Digby from conveying the impression that she had
stumbled into the spotlight. Ms. Digby says she chose the songs.
Hollywood Records bought the Apple Inc. laptop computer and software
that Ms. Digby -- who lives with her parents in Los Angeles's upscale
Brentwood neighborhood -- used to post her YouTube videos. Her version
of "Umbrella" that is being sold at Apple's iTunes Store is a
high-quality studio recording made in June by Hollywood Records, which
also made it available to radio stations.
Ms. Digby, whose exotic looks reflect her Japanese and Irish heritage,
began writing songs as a high-school student and set off in search of
a music career during her freshman year at the University of
California, Berkeley. She says she found herself flying back to Los
Angeles almost every week to play solo gigs at open-microphone nights
at clubs. At age 19, she left Berkeley and concentrated full-time on
music.
While Ms. Digby won regular bookings at nightclubs, things didn't
begin to click until a chance encounter with Barry Krost, a music
manager whose past clients have included Cat Stevens. He took her on
as a client and in early 2005 secured her a publishing deal with
Rondor Music, a publisher that is part of Vivendi SA's Universal Music
Group.
In late 2005, Ron Moss, Rondor's executive vice president, connected
Ms. Digby to a Hollywood Records executive named Allison Hamamura, who
was immediately taken with the singer. Before the year was out,
Hollywood Records had signed Ms. Digby. Since then, the label has
worked with the singer on her debut album of original songs. The album
was produced by Tom Rothrock, who also recorded a recent hit record by
British singer James Blunt.
Once the album was completed late last year, Ms. Digby and her label
began looking for ways to gain visibility. "I was coming out of
nowhere," Ms. Digby says. "I wanted to find a way to get some
exposure."
That's when the idea of posting simple videos of cover songs came up.
"No one's going to be searching for Marié Digby, because no one knows
who she is," Mr. Bunt, the Hollywood Records senior vice president,
reasoned. So she posted covers of hits by Nelly Furtado and Maroon 5,
among others, so that users searching for those artists' songs would
stumble on hers instead. Her version of Rihanna's "Umbrella" proved a
nearly instant hit.
A YOUTUBE STAR'S SECRET
Marié Digby's homemade YouTube music videos, in which she covers
popular songs and sings her own compositions, helped launch her
career. But the 24-year-old singer and guitarist had help from a
record label. Below, links to some of her YouTube videos:
• "Umbrella" by Rihanna2
• "What I've Done" by Linkin Park3
• "Makes Me Wonder" by Maroon 54
Plus, see more of Ms. Digby's videos on her YouTube channel5.
The Lucky Nobody
As Ms. Digby's star rose, other media outlets played along. When Los
Angeles adult-contemporary station KYSR-FM, which calls itself "Star
98.7," interviewed Ms. Digby in July, she and the disc jockey
discussed her surprising success. "We kind of found her on YouTube,"
the DJ, known as Valentine, said. Playing the lucky nobody, Ms. Digby
said: "I'm usually the listener calling in, you know, just hoping that
I'm going to be the one to get that last ticket to the Star Lounge
with [pop star] John Mayer!" The station's programming executives now
acknowledge they had booked Ms. Digby's appearance through Hollywood
Records, and were soon collaborating with the label to sell "Umbrella"
as a single on iTunes.
"We did discover this artist through YouTube," says KYSR Program
Director Charese Fruge. The DJ couldn't be reached for comment.
"I don't think we need a television show to find talent in America,"
crowed NBC late-night talk show host Carson Daly, introducing a
performance by Ms. Digby last month. "We have the Internet." Mr.
Daly's music booker, Diana Miller, says she booked the singer through
Hollywood Records' public-relations department.
At the show's taping, Ms. Digby gave a backstage interview that was
posted online by NBC. "I just did this YouTube video two months ago
and never, ever imagined that it would actually get me on TV or radio
or anything like that," she said. "I just did it in my living room and
it blew up first on YouTube and then I guess it got to Star 98.7 and
then Carson Daly found me so that's why I'm here."
Most of Ms. Digby's new fans seem pleased to believe that they
discovered an underground sensation. A YouTube user posting a message
in response to a cover of Linkin Park's "What I've Done" wrote, "you
truely have talent! get urself out there...if u really wanted im
positive u could land some sick record deals!! id buy a CD 4 sure!"
At a concert last week at a Los Angeles nightclub called the Hotel
Cafe, Ms. Digby played to a sold-out crowd of young fans. Even with
the club's handful of tables reserved for Hollywood Records executives
and their guests, Ms. Digby continued to play the ingénue. Introducing
"Umbrella," Ms. Digby told the audience: "I just turned on my little
iMovie, and here I am!"
At least wants happening here is REAL, A&R are listening and above all a healthy debate is going on . I would love to be as involved as anyone on any forum.
Stewart
Emsar Management
No worries, the listened to flag was only introduced a few days ago. If they're older tracks that have already been listened to, they may not get the tag. However, if they're newer, they'll get listened to. Did you submit them to the A&R group?
IB
Good concept. We do have one at the side. In addition to simple random play and link to the page, would there be anything else you'd like to see? Or should we just keep it simple with a no-nonsense interface?
thanks for the suggestion.
IB
Oh, cool! I have reposted them on my page for everyone's convenience, but I have not yet submitted them to the A&R group. -I will go do that right now!
Thank you for your good feedback! I look forward to discussing more ideas with you!
I suppose this brings up the question of "Number of plays" and all that goes with it.
Some developments in this area would help make the "click myspace" brigade something to think about.
Maybe the A&R people could make a short list of acts they are considering signing, and present them to Voxers for input. Maybe a couple of spaces could be reserved for wildcard artists, who would be chosen by the community to be considered. My concern is that there may be some fantastic artists on here who, because of their lack of promotional ability, are being largely ignored. It's a continuation of my position that there needs to be room in the industry for real artists. There have always been gimmicky acts who have generated buzz and, because they were so good at self-promotion, were able to break through. But there needs to be room for someone like, say, Ron Sexsmith, who doesn't fit the look or image, isn't an attention whore, and who just writes decent music. In that way, I'd love to see a return to the passionate A&R - someone who loves the music of a given artist and fights to get that artist exposure. Someone who develops an artist and recognizes talent and nurtures it, thereby bringing a great artist to a world that might otherwise overlook him or her because their myspace page wasn't cool enough.
Despite all of the drum-banging about the death of the labels and the death of the oppressive music industry, there is no real democratization of the process except for the few, the opinionated, the outspoken. The majority of us still look to the labels to be the arbiters of taste, to provide us with good music, be it throwaway tunes or timeless classics. I'll repeat what I said in another comment because I think it bears it: the artists on here, even the ones who slag you to your face, still want your approval and support. They want you to make them larger than life. Reclaim that power. Have some balls. Throw your money around and develop us some future classics. Tell us what's good, what's next, and who you believe in. You asked if we want to see a different kind of label. My answer is yes, but not something based on an internet fad. The different kind of label I want to see is one that looks for career artists - real talent - and nurtures and develops them for the love of music. The more you sit by and do nothing, scared of the future, the more you look like the outdated, dying old behemoth that so many say you are.
In an ideal world I want access to the following (bear with me I said ideal world)
1 - Promotional team (maybe paid on a commission kind of basis)- or at least someone I speak to about submitting music to radio stations / internet buzz / how to follow up /mailing lists etc...
2 - Feedback on songs submitted (I understand why this can't be done at present but can feedback be left on songs you do like?)
3 - Help with gigs - know any promoters etc that you can put us in touch with? Can we do some support slots with similar sounding artists who are on your books? Who gets to decide support slots?
4 - How about turning Vox into a kind of Magnatune service - 50/50 split but then we get your help with promotion?
5 - When gigs are added to the calendar can it automatically send an email to other Voxers in my area to let them know? Likewise if an Voxer is playing in manchester I want to know about it.
6 - Can we send any questions in to you / someone else in the A and R community? How open are you to being approached through Vox?
All in all I'd say I want to see more on the promotion and services side. I know you can't send out 4000 recording contracts tomorrow but there is some amazing talent on here who should be given a fair crack of the whip. Copyright Vox Records anyone?
More often than not, only sources like MySpace, GarageBands and a few others are tapped when scouting for new talent in the online space. What you need to recognize is that there are entirely new meta-industries out there that are doing the work of "finding new talent" for you.
Take a few examples;
Amie Street (amiestreet.com) - Why not find out which Indies are selling well on Amie Street? Because of the way their model works, music that does well on Amie Street is music that -actual- consumers -want- to buy. This sort of data is invaluable.
Grooveshark / Last.fm (grooveshark.com) - I work for Grooveshark, so I am a little biased but models like Last.fm and Grooveshark do all the work of creating metrics for you. You can see which artists are selling music, who is listening to it and all the demographics surrounding it. Again, this goes back to making it easier for you to find artists that already have some traction with -real people-.
YouTube, Vox, Myspace etc... - All of these are great places to discover musicians that already have large amounts of fan support. I am sure you have already taken steps in this direction but you need to look at it in terms of saturation. If a musician is able to, without any marketing muscle, get a large following on one of these networks -- chances are very good that they could get some success in the wider market.
In general, I think that A&R professionals would do well to take more time to explore the web. Contact these companies, see if they can provide you with metrics about what is selling well. Work with those who are doing some of the number crunching for you, and use that information to make scouting for talent easier.
I hope this helps, contact me if you need anything else.
Cheers,
Steve Spalding
How To Split An Atom
Editor
First of all I'd like to say thanks for inviting me to comment, I hope I can contribute something that gets a few brain cells sparking up.
I have to say that once again, I agree wholeheartedly with Freddy, who appears to have already made many of the points I had in mind on reading the original post. I signed up to this website for one reason, and one reason only. On the Columbia records website, it says this is the new demo submission method. I joined up and posted my songs because I want the attention of the A&R folks at a label whose roster includes many of the artists I respect most (Dylan, Springsteen et al.). As Freddy says, what I want from this website, in an ideal world, is an email that says "We've listened to your music and we think it's fucking fantastic, please accept this shiny million-pound record deal". Note that I said *ideal world*. I know good and well that the process is absolutely not that simple - my father, a record producer by trade, was deeply involved in the music industry for many years (he was among the founders of Virgin) and I fully understand the complexity behind the scenes.
So naturally I instantly saw this community for what, if we're all honest, it is - a very shrewd, very clever bid by a major label to feel out the significance of the supposedly drastic climate change among musicians and their audience, to hear it straight from the horse's mouth and, in a discussion exactly like this one, find out what needs to be done for the company to survive and thrive in the current boom of independence.
Now to refer back to another point Freddy made, about A&R men having the balls to take something they think is excellent and simply do their damnedest to make sure everyone else gets to hear it simply because it's fantastic. Let's look at an example. Take John Hammond - who really ought to be the role model for all A&R men, at Columbia and everywhere else. This is the man that signed Dylan, Leonard Cohen, and countless others. It is my absolutely solid belief that neither of the above artists, if they were coming about today, would stand a single chance in hell of getting noticed. They're not fashion-conscious, they're not trendy, they don't get spotted snogging supermodels, and they don't even have conventionally great singing voices. What they *are*, is the two best songwriters in the world. They are artists. They write the kind of songs that change people's lives irreversibly. John Hammond knew this, and he pushed them because he knew what the world needed was great artists. Dylan changed the *entire music world* irreversibly. And yet at the beginning, nobody in the music business would touch him with a barge pole. He could barely get a gig. They called him "Hammond's Folly", because he was in no way an obviously commercial investment.
The point I'm getting around to making here is that what you guys need to do is keep your eyes absolutely focused on precisely what you're here for - to find the talent and to help it grow and develop. I make absolutely no bones about saying that I fall squarely in the middle of the category of the dedicated artist who has absolutely no ability for self-promotion whatsoever. I can shamelessly say that I *need* someone to handle the PR for me. I know that my songs are great - they're great because I dedicate my entire being to making them great, and using my voice to get them across to the listener with as much power as possible. Just the other day, I got an email from a stranger saying they'd listened to my album and wept because it was so beautiful. As an artist, I LIVE for moments like that and I wish I had the resources to get the music to more people - but I don't have the ability, or even the desire, to spend hours staring at a computer screen signing up to various services, sending emails to mailing lists and trying to get people's attention. My self-promotional know-how extends as far as emailing the occasional promoter to set up a few gigs. I can't do it myself because I'm just not that sort of person, and as far as I'm concerned the reason major labels exist now is to help people like me, who simply aren't equipped to push themselves in the way that the independent crowd can.
To answer your original question, then, what you can do with this community is demonstrate to the music world, on a personal level, straight to the artists and the fans themselves, what it is that makes the major label approach different from, and equally as valuable as the independent method. It seems to me that by asking what features we want on the website, you're losing sight of the fact that we're not here because we want website features that we ourselves can take advantage of - we're here simply because we want YOU to notice us, and offer the promotional services, resources and opportunities that many of us are not, ourselves, capable of creating because we're just not that good at it on a personal level.
So what features do I want? Maybe a flag that says "This member of A&R personnel is especially interested in you". Just a box that the A&R team can check to let us know that we're paying paid attention to - just knowing that my music has been *heard* doesn't make me any more confident that I'm any closer to making it. After all, you might have just listened to the first 10 seconds and skipped it. Ultimately, even if it turns out you're *not* interested, give those people a message saying "Sorry, your music is not being considered". It sounds terribly harsh, but it's better than keeping people stringing along indefinitely, hoping that you'll notice them eventually.
While I think it's admirable that you're putting people in touch with SLicethepie and all the rest, you're actually in danger of putting yourselves out of business by trying to *appeal* to the independent crowd, because they're the ones who *already know* that they don't need you. Keep your eyes on the goal - to find the talent, create personal relationships with them, and ultimately sign them.
Thanks for the invite IB! heres a few suggestions I can offer at this second...
1) I know that Columbia/RCA has it's focus more on UK artists, which is cool, but why aren't your outlets in other countries involved in this? (Hello, USA???)
I've heard some GREAT music here on VOX, but they aren't all in the UK. USA, Canada, Japan to name a few...
I think an artist search shouldn't be so regionally limited. -You'll miss out on some music with potential that deserves to be heard.
2) A "time-stamped flag" is a nice start, but it doesn't really say much to an artist, or artist wanna-be. Personally, I don't see any sense in working a song to death to get a better recording if I don't know if anyone even liked it. No one really needs a "pat on the back", but maybe some sort of supportive comment, or constructive criticism would help us in our creativities.
3) Kang's calander is FANTASTIC, and just what you all needed!!!! -Great job there Kang! -I like SILO's idea of an automatic e-mail being sent out to interested Voxers, but instead of it being sent as a date is added, which could potentially FLOOD everyone's inboxes, I think the ENTIRE monthly calander, or week-by-week updates should be E-Mailed to all interested Voxers. -Like a subscription to a weekly calander.
4) Offer low budgeted artists a grant to improve their skills and gear.
That's all for right this second, but as I think up more, I'll be happy to let you know! Thank you for this opportunity to be heard both musically and vocally!
Lads,
I reckon theres alot of whinging going on from bands and artists about their music not getting listened to. Theres no point in blaming Indieboy, Ged, Mike etc saying stuff along the lines of ....'Im fed up, theres nobody listening to my music, what kind of a&r men are ye'........
jaysus what do you expect??Some bands and artists are basically crap, shit, gick. Do you want a&r reps to write back to you and go ' listen thank you for chosing sony music. Unfortunately at this time we find your music crap, awful and frankly you are a pain in the arse as you keep messaging me as you obviously think you have good music. well u fucking dont'............
Im not saying my music is any better, frankly im probably crap but i dont loose sleep over it so dont expect anything. Im solely convinced if your music is really outstanding and different you will be heard. I remember years ago meeting andy ross of food records in london. He discovered blur. I was only 19 or 20 full of band attitude with a cassette demo of my first band sitting in his office saying 'listen to this, its great'...his look was priceless..he looked at my tape and then told me to look at the 3 stacks of cassettes piled up next to his office desk. 'erhh yeah right, see those tapes, thats what arrived in last week and i havent listened to any of them..gimme a break he said...
basically theres no way on earth the a@r men on this comminity can listen to everything. However This is by far the best route for them to access music immediately.
The music business is 'the whole package now' and from a psychological background good songs sound even better songs when they have brilliant videos with them. I think a new avenue for the community would be to put a focus on artists and bands to acompany their great songs with some videos. Im not talking about boring videos of bands playing live in camden town, London for 3 mins. We are living in a technology era whereby bands can make videos of quality with themes running through them.Push yourselves more. I often compare being in a band to being an athlete. Theres always somebody better than you so train harder, work harder. That motto could be said of the music business. Yes theres a certain amount of luck but luck is running out nowadays as theres less people out there in positions to sign us artists to major labels. Thus ending our dreams of being rich rockstars,..bolix.. work harder like the athlete..
Indieboy hot the nail on the head during the week saying theres alot of similarities with the music and film business. Too bloody right, they go hand in hand.I reckon you have a much better chance of attracting a label if you can deliver the full package. Get your band of their arse and get out there, put the directors head cap on and make a good video to accompany your great music. Even the crap bands have a better chance of being noticed if you had a decent video. Maybe the community and indieboy could look to promoting bands with videos more.
Alot of the music business i reckon is 'the emperors new clothes'. I reckon alot of things in life are the emperors new clothes. If 200 people started walking down the main street in dublin with dish clothes and cotton buds sticking out of the noses before long everyone would be going 'jaysus thats looks alright doesnt it'. Same with music and videos. Once one person says jes this video is excellent, this band is good, often it catches on real fast....and you get noticed!!!
I do have one criticism of indieboy and many of the other a&r men who work in london. Yes i know you live and work there and it is were you socialise but from an a&r perspective i reckon you spend far too much time in Camden. If i was a budding a@r scout i would be sleazing around leeds, sheffield, edinburgh, glasgow, Dublin, cork, Aberdeen, Manchester and liverppol looking for unpolished gems as they are there................i know i know junior a&r scouts havent got the dough either but like the band and the athlete who need to push harder i often think the a&r guy does too, and camden town in london aint the only place in the universe..
food for thought
India 99
If the labels are gonna drop the anonymous thing, and actually interact with people via online access and showcasing like Vox, then we as artists gotta stop being crybabies when they aren't listening to us.
These people are coming online, telling us who they are, and cruising through the community for THEIR benefit. We agree to play that game. Part of that is understanding that the professional music industry is still incredibly difficult to break into, despite what chuckleheads like Simon Flippin Cowell and his ilk are up to. Not everybody is good enough.
Maybe not even "you". Still, you get points for putting your shit out there, and possibly earning friends and fans throughout the community. That itself is a reward.
But I would really love to see people relax on the "NOBODY IS PAYING ATTENTION TO ME" shit. It's not good for what this place is supposed to be for.
Thanks very much for the post India99. There has been a lot of talk about blanket commenting. It's actually harder to comment on something that's a bit crap as you spend ages trying to keep things constructive, when at times it's very difficult. I've actually been thinking about the possiblity of having online 'scouts' recruited from within Vox to help out with this.
Very true about me and Camden, I spend a lot of time in North London and Manchester, as that's the territory that easily accessable to me. Don't worry too much though as the likes of MikeP, Marc and Gigadance travel all over the country, and beyond when meeting new acts.
Thanks DK,
Each territory as it's own A&R strategy. The UK I think is still the only one to have an online A&R thing of this nature, though other territories have started similar. I believe that Epic in NY have been working with musicnation, which is similar but based around a competition model, whereas other european territories have then own online submissions processes. One day I'm hoping that the whole process could be centralised with information being forwarded on to the relevant territories, each having it's own access. It is still early days for this process and in comparison to other sites the community is still quite small. As this develops it's going to be interesting to see if this can be pused beyond it's inital juristiction.
As for the issue of commenting on everything, I and others did try to comment on just about everything that came in. After a while it became harder and harder. Plus there's nothing more frustrating than struggling to come up with a comment on something that isn't great. On top of that, I found I was repeating myself a lot which looks like I was pasting comments which would essentially render them perceived as worthless anyway. I think the current system, although not perfect for everyone, works well. Essentially it's getting listened to with the best getting to the right people. As for artistic encouragement you could possibly look to other areas within the community such as other artists, management, music review (there are a couple of review blogs in Vox) etc.
The calendar thing is a 3rd party tool that I found. So I can't develop it that much. I could post a screen grab each week on one of the blogs or simply a link to remind people to look as anyone has access. I've been thinking about some kind of podcast so maybe gigs could be announced on that.
As for grants I don't think it's feasable at present. But artist development does still exist as regards sticking them in rehearsal/recording, helping them out to see what happens. There are various schemes out their I believe to help financially struggling musicians for organisations in various territories.
Keeping simple is good as long as everything is covered.
As for the 'What this member has been listening to' do you means the favourites section? I didn't realise anyone viewed mine, that's nice to know. I will try and start highlighting people's favourites.
The number of plays thing was originally something that I discouraged as I didn't want any competative nature to the community. As many people know from myspace, pageviews don't necessarily reflect quality. However, a few people have been asking about how to track their traffic as they use their blog as a promotional tool and want to know how many people they're reaching. I will speak to Vox regarding this and see if it can be an optional tool.
There's an awful lot of ideas on this thread, many of which I'm finding very encouraging. I can't comment on everything that's been discussed but I do have a couple of points to make based on what I would like to see from a site such as this.
I think one of the main advantages to this site, as apose to MySpace or facebook or whoever, is that you can have an active dialogue with music industry professionals. I find with MySpace and Facebook and similar, its more about communicating with fans, friends and other media - for example, we've got a very active MySpace page but its not somewhere I'd feel comfortable taking about the industry, or the direction of our music, or what deals are on the table, because its too "public" - does that make sense? We are in showbis, we don't want the mechanics of it too become too obvious, it destroys the magic. I'd much rather run a blog that I know is plugged into the industry and develop the band through talking to people who's job it is to develop bands. Bands that are developing in interesting directions could then go on to be signed by the label, and it would be a good way for the label to keep track of talent and know what they will want and need when it comes to putting something on the table. The MySpace page is a bit like being on stage - its about people enjoying what you've got to offer right now, great photos, good times, good music etc. It's your online showcase. We shouldn't try to duplicate that on vox, it's pointless doing things twice and time has to be shared between music making, promotion and our bloody day jobs!!! So Vox is about development, and MySpace is about where we are right now - who agrees with that?
I really like the idea of putting together podcasts based on submissions to this site which could then do the rounds for radio play, tastemakers and what have you, possibly with some mechanism for feedback, with the emphasis being on encouraging professionals to engage with bands in a dialogue via the vox network i.e. again, its the whole "development" angle. It could allow artists the opportunity to be heard by people they otherwise wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance of reaching and not be dismissed straightaway because its not a finished product.
There was a comment about including number of plays and other counters to the site and to be honest I'm not in favour of that - I think these things can be very misleading as to the quality or potential of an act - its bad enough on MySpace when you see a band has got 6000 friends and 600 plays and then you realise that they've spent all day clicking on random people and "fixing" the result to make it look good. come on, we've ALL done that from time to time, haven't we.... admit it!! I don't think we should be "competative" - "collaborative" is the word here. And only through "collaboration" will we see this rennaissance that we have been discussing.
I've just discovered this "sellaband" thing and it looks interesting - but I can't help but think its yet one more thing to have to think about, log into and faff about on. I appreciate its great having all these opportunities, but bloody hell, I just can't keep up! If this site could help link us all up to these other sites, and save a bit of time, then thats all for the good, because, as somebody commented above, we can't afford not to get involved. Some sort of shared functionality. New pages like this seem to crop up every day and its just ridiculous to expect the artist to do all this leg work themselves and come up with good material.
Blanket commenting - waste of time - i never expected anybody to reply to a physical demo that I sent out if they didn't like it, so why should it be any different on here. Nobody ever says "no" in the music industry anyway, they just don't say anything at all, and that often means "no" until you start doing well, then it becomes a "yes"!! A regular, interesting blog (and I don't mean one that just says "aren't we good" all the time) is much more likely to yeild interest, because if you've got something to say, there's more chance your music has got something to say as well.
Scouts from the community - not sure about that - just doesn't feel right - don't know why.
So, only the UK is running a this sort of thing for submissions - interesting - well lets lead the way, I say, and make it work. Its certainly got off to a cracking start with nearly 4000 submissions. That's alot of music.
I think I'll leave it there for now.
Quick plug - its our InThe City gig on Sunday - see blog for details!
best wishes,
Ben
Thank you for answering to my suggestions, but first I wanted to comment on one thing you posted in a comment above (beginning with "Excellent post...")
There's nothing wrong with you all blogging about any certain band you just signed, this is their music and why you signed them, but hopefully you can do that without encouraging people to become "clones" of your newly signed act.
Like rap "artists"... One group got it right, now everyone sounds just like them. -There doesn't seem to be any real musical creativity in rap anymore, because everyone is trying to match the same formula that worked for an original artist.
I say discourage cloning, and promote originality!
Ok. in reply to your answer for me... Firstly, I'm with you. I'd also like to see this online thing become centralized with info being forwarded to reps in their respective territories. I think that alone could ease an artists frustrations a lot. I don't care for the competition models like the one you mentioned... -There's too many "losers" that way, much more disappointment for artists, and only a handful of acts actually getting anywhere.
Next, you're right. -I'm sure it's initially impossible to comment on everyone's music, but I guess maybe I'm inadvertantly "rushing the process" some by wondering about a songs follow-up. I guess what I'm saying is a time stamp is a GREAT idea, but it just seems a little cold, and it may give an artist some false hope. But personally, I'd like to see a time stamp on my songs rather than nothing...
Third: I have another idea for Kang's Calendar. I know it's not yours and you can't make changes, but how's this: Keep the calandar as it is, but making it so that we can all have the calandar on our pages. -Acts go to the original calendar to post their gigs, but as they're added, the versions on our pages get updated as the gigs are added. Also, maybe do regional versions of the calendar so we can see gigs in the UK, gigs in the US, or wherever they may be.
Lastly, grants. (grins) I couldn't help but ask. Personally, I'd prefer session work over the typical band thing. The problem is I haven't read music since high school, and even then, it was for a Baritone, not a guitar or piano.
I play, and create my music by ear, and most professional companies frown on that. -Maybe some don't care about one's ability to read music, and I just don't know it, but I'm not aware of any. Ah well, the search continues.
Thank you again, for responding to our ideas and questions so well. It is appreciated here!
DK
Hi Folks,
I think this is encouraging! As an artiste I'd just like to say that it's all I can do to get enough time to do a good job of writing and recording songs which I think are good enough to be submitted. That doesn't mean I think they couldn't be better - because I don't think any of us would ever stop fiddling with a mix if someone else didn't shout "enough already!" at some point. That's what being a creative type carries with it. Therefore, I have very little time to do the stuff I'm no good at - which as you'd expect is the business and promo side of it. We can't be good at everyhting - and we rely on you guys to be good at the business and promo for us. I just can't get enough time or creative ebergy stored aside to put it into thinking up new and interesting blog posts every day - sorry. If I have any surplus creative anergy - it all goes into my music. Why my music isn't better - or more appealing is another story - and I'm sure you know what is commercially acceptable and what isn't - so I wouldn't dream of arguing with you on that one!
What I'd appreciate is if you could take into account any existing work we're doing on the promo side - say on Myspace. I know there's a whole debate about whether Myspace is a waste of time - but for promo dunces like me its very easy to use, and every so often you run into a real person on there who gives some useful feedback. For instance - I have managed to get together over 3000 'friends' there - and have had approaching 6000 plays. People come back again and again to play my songs. I know a lot about where my best appeal lies from this. I go down like a bag of crud in the UK, but amongst American women between about 30 and 98 years old - I get a pretty good response. I even get a reasonable response from Chinese men, and women. In Australia I get a good response from women of all ages, but nothing from men - no matter how hard I try.
I only have one lifetime, and each day there are only 24 hours - so I just can't do it all again with another platform like Vox. There's another one just out I see called Beta Records. Here we go again, I've registered, but I won't have time to go out there and bombard listeners with my material, andas you know Columbia, promo is about bombarding people with stuff until they can't ignore it and they give up and listen!
So it would be really great if instead of telling us not to ask you to review our other websites and Myspace pages - you could at least take a look and see whether you think there's something already going on you could take advantage of. I know English people think my music sucks, but the yanks don't, I get a lot of emails asking if there's a CD available - and I have to say sadly not. I've started sending these people copies of all those hundreds of demo copies I had pressed up in the summer for sending to record companies so they could throw them in the bin. At least my US Myspacers will play and keep them, I'm even sending them out and paying my own postage it's so flattering they want one.
Please, please, please, take into account that we are musicians first and foremost, and if we are wasting our time thinking up witty blog posts instead of doing what we're best at - we're not being true to ourselves and our music will suffer as a result. Well, mine will anyway. I only have one brain.
Cheers Everyone!!
MMxx
Hello Everyone!
This industry is wonderful, we all have a passion for one thing, great music! that's it. That's why I got into working for these guys. I love music.
I think the Vox site is a good idea, my boss rings the top A&R Managers and Directors daily, I like this approach more, less scary!!
But... and I hope you don't mind me saying this, it feels a bit distant. We put up songs that teenagers are raving about, queing around the block for tickets and , yes, screaming at the band, Oh dear ..etc etc...
You kindly listen to them and we appreciate that, say its good? and that's it. Now I am sure there is more to this than it not making much sense.??
More details would be great, other A&R people leaving comments, constructive thoughts, more information if possible.
Overall its a great site, just a little room for improvement.
Mandy X
I've just had a thought (shocking, I know) - I have an EP out on iTunes through www.tunecore.com . It's very simple to use and very cheap - you pay a low fee for getting your stuff put up in each territory and then a low upkeep fee annually. Perhaps the A&R guys could every now and then put together all the tracks from VOX they like best - say 20 or so, every 3 months for example - and stick them up on iTunes / Napster, give them a little promo push and see how well the tracks do? Figuring out how to hand the money around from track sales would be a little complicated but it seems like it could be done quite easily.
I'm trying to think of what could be done regarding this theme of investigating different territories as well. I know first-hand that over in Northern Ireland, there's an incredible wealth of musical culture that's going completely untapped because of the complete lack of any music industry presence whatsoever. What makes this even worse is that the experience of playing live over there is absolutely fantastic - I played a week-long festival there in July and had more fun, recognition and appreciation playing for the people there in one week than I've had in almost a year of gigging around london. This is hard to get across to someone without actually going over there and demonstrating it first hand. In London, you're generally either completely ignored or treated with outright hostility. I know it doesn't seem like that to someone who lives here in London full-time, but in Rostrevor (just south of Belfast) a couple of months ago I sang one song (it wasn't even a gig, people just demand songs from you when you tell them you're a singer) and was offered a place to live and a constant stream of pints. I'd love to be able to stay there and avoid the comparatively soulless experience that is the london gig scene, but the fact is there's not a chance in hell of getting noticed because there's no label representation there. I've also been helping my dad out with recording a couple of local singer-songwriters from west belfast, and they're fantastic but I wonder what all the work we're doing with them is for sometimes when there's not many avenues open to them that lead out into the wider world.
I suppose this is just a reiteration of what's been said about A&R looking a little further afield for talent. I'm not saying you want to be just sending a wee middle-class english boy out to belfast looking for talent - you probably won't be seeing him again unless he knows his way around. But taking steps to get this community reaching a bit further afield wouldn't be a bad start.
You mentioned in an above post - "So, you want to see us investing, promoting and championing what we think is good? Do you think new signings (only new signings, not chainging this into a marketing tool) could be introduced through the blogs, so you know what we're looking at? Maybe we could go "Here's the artist we've just signed, this is their music and this is why we signed em" leaving it at that. Or perhaps we could have more comments on what we're doing as a label to develop such as our newer concepts, partnerships etc? So it's more a question of content rather than structure/functionality?".
That's absolutely key, in my opinion. Content rather than functionality. At times I worry that the balance between this community being about demo submission, and its underlying nature as a kind of free focus group for you guys to get a feel for new business models, gets a little tipsy. I agree that this is a fantastic and unprecedented opportunity for the artists to have contact with the label in a way that's never been done before, and I believe that in these forums we're right now laying down the path for the future of the industry to take. But that works both ways - if you're going to use us as a sounding board in this way, you need to give us the lowdown on what conclusions you're coming to, with a view to keeping your eye on telling us what we really want to know - what acts are you interested in, why are you interested in them, and what we can do to get you to be more interested in us. What are you looking for at the moment? Solo artists? Singer / songwriters? Disco funk jazz metal explosions on the rainbow of the cosmos? Also bear in mind that how good a band is at promoting themselves is not a mark of how good they are. Promotion, publicity, distribution etc. is supposed to be *your* job. I don't seem to be the only person here who feels that the people who are good at promoting themselves, who would be taking advantage of extra promotional functionality etc., are the people who are capable of ultimately making it without label backing. Simply giving us more tools to promote ourselves here could well lead to inadvertently hastening your company's descent into obsolescence.
Hope you can make some sense of my ramblings. I'm finding all of this very interesting indeed.
That's some excellent input, maybe it's the case of striking up some kind of low-level partnership with the likes of those companies as it would be mutually beneficial for them to have an extra 'pull' with label involvement and us to be able to find the talent through their activity.
Good stuff, thanks
IB
Having said that, the circuit is so tied up with this promoter, that promoter, the usual 'please bring at least 10 people then we'll give you 30p per flyer after we've taken our £10000000 for the backline' lark means making gigging worthwhile is very difficult for many artists (including myself).
I know you were thinking of putting on nights before (did that go ahead btw..?), but if there was some sort of vox syndicated gig night - properly branded, that perhaps could happen in different venues around the country, showcasing the best artists in the community, it would be a fantastic opportunity for artists to get their material to a wider audience, and also give you guys more of a chance to see people play live... I am aware that labels are particularly interested in artists and bands who have already built a following, but unfortunately the way venues are run (particularly in London) makes it difficult to do so sometimes...
My other suggestion if you were to do something like this would be to put fewer artists on, so people can play longer sets.. I don't know about other voxers, but I am endlessly frustrated by lugging all my gear somewhere just to play for 25 minutes.. It seems like the whole gigging circuit is about 'showcasing' - which I suppose serves a purpose, but it seems to be less about playing music, enjoying yourself and entertaining an audience, and more about playing the same 5 songs over and over again in the hopes that someone important might come and see you one day... Am I begginning to sound like a hippie yet...? :-)
No, all makes sense. Most of the 'showcases' that happen are a result of promoters wanting to get as many bands through as possible working on the theory that they'll bring an average of 20 people each.
Yes, my night is starting in Novermber, will let you know when I'm booking.
As for an official Coumbia/RCA/Vox night around the country, that's an interesting idea. Possibly it could tie up with the podcasting/radio suggestion earlier. Possibly a little optimistic at this stage but there's no reason why it couldn't be started small and expand over time.
Food for though, cheers again Susie.
I don't really know what the solution is, but there doesn't seem to be an awful lot to encourage artists to play live on a regular basis, simply for the love of it, and the fact that playing live for many artists like myself is still the most rewarding part of being a musician. It's got to the point now really where playing live is all about getting signed for many bands, which is a shame, because sooner than you know, your shiny 5 song set becomes stale.
It's still my belief that the greatest artists, the ones with longevity, are the ones who've played and played and played, night after night... those are the great musicians, who seem to be few and far between.. the number of times I've seen a mediocre band headlining a Camden dive is depressing..
Everyone needs to gig more. There must be a way... Although maybe my biggest problem is carting my sodding Rhodes up and down the stairs.. :-)
Then I thought.. although this might be a bit complicated - instead of just a basic click through, you could have something along the lines of 'like this artist? then you'll like this' sort of thing.. kind of like that iLike thing, where people are directed to similar artists.. again this would be a cool way of getting people to come here and listen, but in a more focussed way...
It certainly helps to be able to play live.... I can't imagine why anyone would try and enter the music industry without that ability - but some must or it would be an issue. The biggest problem nowadays with going in through the live route is that all the medium sized venues disappeared during the eighties. Now it's either pubs and small clubs (who either don't pay anything - or don't pay enough to support even an acoustic duo leave alove a 5 piece rock outfit. God help you if you have a horns section.) - or Stadiums - nothing in between in the crucial 300 seater size range. This is where, historically, new bands have been able to trudge around making a name for themselves on live circuits up and down the country. No venues = no gigs = no risk taking on the part of promoters = no development of new talent. The answer to this has been (up to now it would seem) to manufacture bands in the studio - and then break them straight into stadium sized gigs, split them up after six months or so - and then give them a nostalgia reunion tour when everyone is old a 'past it' 5 years later. The only other game in town seems to be those awful TV talent shows which seem so popular where Simon Callow gets to make a name for himself by tearing apart young hopefuls for the entertainment of all those couch potatoes at home who have never sung a note in the bath let alone up there in front of 2000 people.
By comparison gigs sound much better than that, I can't wait for the next opportunity to travel for four hours, work for 12 and come away with £50.00 for my troubles - if I manage to get the club owner to cough up without setting the bouncers on me ;-)
Happy pitching everybody!!
MMxx
Mostly agreed Ben - but I'm confused about what the difference between clicking on random faces in Myspace in the hopes they might listen to one of your tracks - and any other kind of proactive unsolicited sales technique, say, like cold calling for double glazing sales - or even broadcasting on the radio. If you click on enough faces and get plas as a result - isn't that a bit like doing a mini broadcast? I don't see it as 'fixing' the result if you do it honestly - if someone listens to the end of the track - you derve that play countet to click round one notch in my book. You've entertained someone, somewhere, for 4 minutes and discharged your contractual responsibility to the listener as an artist. Granted there are a lot of fake Myspace accounts out there - that's another issue. There are also people offering services for money such as '1000 plays per week for a month garuanteed' agreements. Here you send money, and they sit there clicking away for you. I don't know how ethical that is. If you had a promo company working the phones for you - would that be ethical? Probably. Seems to me, most methods of building a profile are acceptable. You have to reach those people somehow - and we need help doing it as artists. There just isn't time to do it all ourselves.
Cheers
MM
I think you should do what you think is required to increase your exposure. If you want to click on random people on MySpace then do so, likewise if you feel you'll benefit from paying someone to up your totals then feel free. Its just something that I don't think works for us because there's no genuine engagement, and I'd rather be dealing with people who come to us on MySpace having heard us play live or are visiting the site because they've seen a flyer. I did go through a phase of adding people to build up the profile but I don't bother now. Everyone on the site has a genuine interest and that's much better, i think.
The genuine interest aspect is very appealing I agree. It's always nice when they write in and ask how they can get a CD. My music is pretty difficult to tour without a lot of dosh unfortunately - so self funded small venue trudges are a non starter really. Hey Ho - I chose that route - and prefer the challenge of big sounds and big arrangements - so I have to market it it any way I can. I'm going to need a whole lot of backing to get it on the road though ;-) I know the engagement would come if was thought by some nice benevolent MAJOR LABEL to be a viable business proposition.
;-)
In the interests of collaboration amongst this lovely community of artistes, I see there's a new site up for music distribution which looks pretty good. If you haven't already seen it I would go and have a look. There are a couple of things I like about it. It's linked to Facebook via an easy to use application, and Facebook seems to be doing very well lately. Also, they offer what look like some very useful listener demographics reporting tools so you can find out what sort of people have been tuning in and playing your stuff. This helps target your future marketting efforts, sorry am I teaching grandmother to suck eggs here. It was quick and easy to build a working profile, so if you want a look at the one I prepared earlier for my cosmic global supermegahits it at:
http://www.reverbnation.com/themightymirage
I'm not meaning to plug me here (much) by a quick click on that link and you should be able to figure out how to sign up and all that from there.
Cheers all, happy artistry!
MMxx
There is also the hope that they will benefit from any advertising the label might do.
There are other ways of getting onto I tunes, though but its a bit of a secret at the mooment... have a look here ,it might help, if you really want to go that route.
And I suppose many do. I dont often recommend such , but I like the trouble that these people go to with tutorials on promotions and such , well worth reading . But then I do like dealing with artists that understand the industry and can talk with the right terminology
http://broadgategnome.com/jamroom/index.php?c=tunecore
I tried the Itunes route. They just sent me a huge list of smaller online distributors who seemed only interested in people who were able to predict huge numbers of unit sales. I wasted about three weeks chasing them all down - so if I were you I would cherry pick the ones you go for to save time. It might be genuinly that there's no market for my music though - so definitley give it a shot. The online distributers seem to want a ready to go audience to push stuff at. Not very helpful if you're trying to get an entirely new project off the ground.
Good luck, keep on it!!
MM
The secret is putting isome initial promo work and getting it right , although in a relatively small way. Or better still getting someone else to do it., so that the artist can get on with the music
I get enquiries from bands looking for management deals. They are never too sure as to what they actually want, and perhaps havent looked into it. My stock reply is to " go and stand outside the Business Studies department at your nearest college and ask the first person you see that looks just a little nerdy.
Likely as not they will jumpa att he chance and will prove to be someone that knows the internet inside out through constant enquiry and can easily cope with all of the technicalities of marketing through to registrations with the necessary bodies. The band get someone who follows their instructions, and you get the addded bobus; your accounts willpass muster for the Taxman.
Ok I cut my teeth in an age when new bands were always maneged by a mate, and I think we are getting back to that situation.
Given computer time input any band should be able to hit download sales of a couple of thousand and physical sales of a thousand quite easily.
Give your computer geek equal billing as member of the band, and set them on a quick learning curve, and there should be no holding any band back
We know.
We have offered a number of special deals, set up a special shop, offered free membership , and free prominet and tunecore for itunes and free promo, free podcast and more over the last few months, and the take up as been absolutely nothing. So little interest at all thet we had to drop most of them People want things but arent really prepared to aupport anything, or they are brainwashed into thinking the only route is the old fashioned one via the regular business.
When you consider we are bunch of old fogies that have been around so long we know the business and have so many contacts we start our christmas cards in September, it make syou wonder.
Okay its new here, but as a comparison, we may get one or two enquiries a week on myspace whereas we get an enquiry on average one a DAY, from records stands ane even people stopping us in the street.
As a result , across the board we are working with people that we have known personally for twenty years or more, working on old material and re-issues. There is very little point in devoting too much time to new entrants but we are stuck with the policy and have to maintain the resources ( we are a cooperative)
Ok Its also very useful for gathering info for our paid jobs, so we will alwyas be here and a few other similar places..
Sorry to throw the kipper on your barbecue but its a reality.
Best of luck with your ideas but you may be frustrated by the lack of interest,, and come to a stage where you wonder why you bothered. But I would love you to prove us wrong.
That's a great idea! The local college - I hadn't thought of that. Some things are right under your nose aren't they? Thanks for that - that's very constructive, and also very encouraging.
MM
Apologies for the lateness in posting but i've been busy and just discovered this discussion!
All sounds good. I like the idea of a regular (monthly?) podcast with a few stand out tracks from the community. It could simply be a few tracks chosen by IB and would give a good indication of what's hot at the moment. Rather than just another media player with a couple of songs, I think it would be a good idea to have some banter in between tracks... usual info bout the band/song and something to add interest/make it entertaining.
Then you could also have guest podcasts by a few people in the company. I'd love to see what tunes are warming your earlobes at the moment. A feature like that would make me personally want to sign in and use the site more.
I also think you could take it to the next level by having a feature where users of the community could upload their own podcasts, with a podcast hub/media player on the front page. It would be interesting to quickly see what tracks are popular in the community, and I also think it would encourage others to explore the community more which is important.
I also think some live showcase events would be really good, you may remember I suggested this idea a while back! Something like that would help foster a sense of community which is essential if you want people to keep signing in here and using the site, rather than just uploading a few tracks now and again and not posting. Get some good old fashioned human interaction over a pint!
It could simply be a showcase night of the 'cream of the crop' from the community. Invite all the other vox artists to come and watch, and also the non-music users of vox... some kind of banner on front page of vox would surely help draw a crowd. It would be good for the bands to be a part of something like that but it would also be good for you a&r guys as you would get to see some of the best bands in one night on one stage!
Although, when I originally thought about it I had envisioned something a bit less cliquey I suppose. I thought about it getting to the stage of there being a regular gig night in a few cities round the country. It would start with London, then Edinburgh/Manchester/wherever... I'm not sure how big the community is right now (or more importantly how geographically concentrated it is... by that I mean are there enough bands/users on here from Edinburgh/Manchester/wherever to pull it off) but actually it might not be a bad idea to NOT have a full bill of vox acts, maybe 2 great bands chosen from here, then someone (a local promoter?) can pick the rest... not only would this help pull in crowds by opening it out to non-vox bands and punters, it would probably help grow the community as those non-vox bands would surely sign up and create an account?
So, stepping it up a level again... if you have a few reasonably successful gig nights around the country what does that allow you to do? Well how about a mini-tour of Britain! Only the best acts would be a part of this.. ones with heavy a&r interest. It would be good for a&r to see how these bands go down in Edinburgh, then Manchester, then London etc. It would obviously be good for the bands as they get to do a mini-tour round (hopefully) succesful gig nights.
I suppose you could step it up another level again, and invite the odd newly signed act onto the bill. This would be good for the label to help promote and break a new act. Or even invite a Mark Ronson or Calvin Harris to do a wee set... Obviously some of these ideas a more workable than others, but you could build up a buzz about these nights.
Anyway, I seem to have typed a lot so i'll end it here for now.
You'll never take me alive copper!
;-)
Currently going down a storm in Australia actually - this morning anyway. Having a whale of a time down there!
MMxx
Seems about the best one I've seen so far. Serious marketting potential - depending on how reliable the accounts which comprise the Facebook population are. I reckon with Myspace there's aprobably about 30% real people and the rest fake accounts. Facebook 'seems' a bit more reliable than that at the moment anyway. Probabl;y get a higher hit rate of real people on Facebook. Glad you like it dudes!
MM
WOAH! I missed this blog as well! I've been away from Vox for far too long! :(
I'm loving all of the new ideas and suggestions that have been posted so far. I can see some really good and beneficial suggestions being made.
Vox is an online community and it's good to the labels embracing such a community. I think SonyBMG are pushing the envelope in regards to using technology. Sales of physical CDs may be on the low but digital sales are most definitely on the up and this kind of brings me onto my next suggestion for the site...
Quality control (sort of). As well as a "xxxx has listened to your song" how about a rating system of some sorts? I understand A&R's have zero time to comment on tracks so how about a simple rating system... 5 stars? Although, as broad as the system is it would help people get an idea of what needs to be done in order to boost their rating.
For example if i was constantly getting 1 or 2 star ratings from A&R's i would switch things up straight away. I would go back to the studio, re-evaluate my sound and try to get to the bottom of it all and try and raise my rating score.
This rating score would also help out the A&R's, think of it as a "what's hot and what's not".
Also i love the thought of a label growing out of our community... Columbia Digital? lol
Imagine it... An online label for the unsiged and unheard? In Hip Hop we have mixtapes to showcase talent on the rise... Perhaps the online label could have online album releases for all of the talent on the site. Who the talent is would be at the A&R's discretion. The deals could be 1 single or 1 album or anything in between.
How an album for an online label would be promoted is anyone's guess. I'm assuming it would be done in the same manner as a normal album i.e. Radio play, singles, videos, internet etc etc.
The only thing to be careful of is flooding the market with too much music that people don't want to hear so the label would have to be run in the same manner as many "proper" labels.
I dunno, a bunch of random ideas floating around in my skull.
4 hours sleep and a hard drive failure on my studio pc has messed me up so i'm not sure how much sense i've made in my post.
I'll have some more ideas cooked up this week i'm sure of it so i'll be back soon to brain dump! :D
Cheers.
Kang.
Oops! I just realised that there's already a rating system but i think it's for everyone who listen's to your music. I was thinking about an rating system for A&R's only and then with the highest ratings could be featured in a "ones to look out for" monthly blog or perhaps a "ones we've got an eye on" and in these blogs the A&R could give a quicktime rundown as to why these artists are "ones to looks out for". It's not quite feedback but it's almost there. It's more of a brief explanation as to why the artist caught the A&R's ear. Was it their sound? The vocals? The overall quirkyness of the group etc.
Think of it as buying a car or seeing a car you want.
I want an Audio R8, why? Coz it looks bloomin great! The sound the engine makes when it smashes 10,000 rpm blah blah blah. I know nothing about cars but i was using it as an example and i'm sure you catch my drift! lol
Kang.
Labels should do the equivalent of hip hop mix tapes. Here's what I mean:
Imagine a label that, once a month, releases a cd with 12 [or whatever number you want...i suppose the more the better] songs on it by 12 artists. All of the artists are signed to a new style of contract that covers the contribution of the one song for that one CD. Then....through a grading process as yet to be determined but that most likely would include software on the CD linking to a website set up for voting.,...the listeners rate the stuff (acts aren't really compensated monetarily: the contract allows that the exposure given by the cd is the payment. all artist contact information is included, vox/myspace etc....) Maybe the disc could be a gimme/promo when people buy something else from the label at a retailer or online or whatever.
Top rated stuff gets a closer look.
What happens is, labels get a feel for how the stuff is going to be received on a wider scale by the end consumer, and labels can funnel their money into the appropriate acts.
Kang has mentioned the online side of the same idea, but I wonder if there's merit in hardcopy distro as well...
Blargh...
Excellent idea mate! I'm loving the idea of giving out a promo cd with selected album/single releases... It all depends on how much money the label is willing to spend on this.
Pressing the cds, mastering the tracks to make them all cohesive on the cd etc. If they push the promo cds on the back of a major artist release then they would no doubt be able to offset the money somewhere but without knowing how much a label makes on a £10 cd we'll never know really.
I think having some sort of online voting system is great as well but how many people would do it? Me, personally, i'm a lazy fart! If i put a cd into my pc and something pops up the first thing i do is hit ALT+F4 without even taking a good look at what popped up. The marketing has to be bang on in order for something like this to work.
I think it could be easily done with mp3s in the online world. Each mp3 could be embedded with some code that would connect to an online server and register is as "played" whenever the file is opened. Similar technology already exists in the form of DRM licensing i.e. an mp3 would connect to an online server in order to aquire the valid license. Everytime a file has been registered as "played" the tally so said track would increase and would automtically give the label statistics to run with. Obvisouly in order to prevent cheating or fixing there would have to be some safeguard within the mp3 that would only send out "played" after a certain amount of time, randomly perhaps?
Just some thoughts.
Kang.
The inclusion of a guest track on each album for instance. Not our idea we pinched from the San Fransciso Diggers in 1967!
Mind you we have updated it a bit. All of our Cd releases will contain a menu that whne played in a computer will click back to website for two FREE downloads of tracks from new talent, from either ourselves or our associated small labels.
IN FACT ....SAY IT LOAD PLEASE PINCH THIS!!!!!!
And we have got some new tricks up our sleeves for the New Year. One of them is going to turn the current distribution system upside down.
Hi guys, all i ask is for a chance, so if u guys got time pls listen to only one of my tracks, its called "Bootyful Boo" and i assure u ur day wud be made! Pls pls pls and pls let me kno wat u thnk wen u hear it, u wont be dissapointed! thnx alot Kemm
I would love to know more about your distribution plan once it gets off the ground.
Kem - If you want the A&Rs to hear your music then post a blog and share it with the A&R group. They'll check out your tracks when they can.
Kang.
Coolio. There's no need to upload again. They'll get round to it when they can. They prob get hundreds of posts a day so be patient and they'll get to it.
I look forward to hearing more of your music tho mate.
Kang.
I'm so glad to see SonyBMG embracing the online revolution by moving their A&R online and reaching out to us for advice. How many labels would ever do that? When i read this blog i was shocked that we had even been asked to ACTIVELY make suggestions about how the A&R community could/should evolve and i take my hat off to you guys.
One thing i respect about you guys is that you don't see us blobs who have potential to make the label money, you see us as the architects(?) of things to come in the future which is pretty cool.
And to be honest i feel blessed that although my tracks haven't been selected or from what i can tell, haven't created a buzz amongst the A&Rs i'm still doing something constructive within the community. I mean, i never would have thought that by making a few suggestions they would actually be acted upon.
It's all good though! :D
Do you think i can put the changes to the site on my CV? lol!
"Suggestions i made to the A&R community at SonyBMG were taken into and acted upon and new features were implemented into the website". As much as i would love 2 whack that on my CV, i wasn't playing a huge part in the change but it would be nice! lol
Bottom line... I just wanted to thank the A&R team, the website team and SonyBMG for allowing us to reach out and get this close to the A&Rs and the label.
Kang.
With all the established artists out there with failing 2nd albums and the closed shop circle of the same songwriting teams; writing the same songs but not as good as the big hit they had, I think as much attention should be made to look for new, fresh songwriters as there is for new bands.
Track dumps can be open for a set number of days (decided by A&R dealing with the project) and users can submit a certain number of songs (max 3?), lyrics, beats etc. Again, the number of open submissions per person would have to be decided by the A&R.
If there was ever a unique opportunity for labels to break through new talent then this would be it!
I've mentioned it before but i haven't gone into too much detail purely because i don't know the ins and outs of Vox so therefore i can't suggest how the track dump would be implemented. On paper the design is simple... ish but in reality there's a lot more to consider.
Anyways... Food for thought i guess.
Kang.
It should work. The windows link has a typo in it. there shouldn't be a "." after the http://
Kang.
just want to say "thank you" for this amazing blog.
I already got and found so many interesting contacts through this platform - it`s just a great thing for everyone who is into music.
XXX
BabC
> i will ignore that childish sarcasm with no focus or direction
My apologies. Nice to meet you though.
> We have not met and you apology is not wanted required and there is no reason for it.
The web cam concept is a succinct process of listening to artists play live in a practice session
> do you mean Watching because if you are listening u don't need web cams
and applying the process of band development to that,
> many of these artists are not in bands, they will never perform live
But this would be done with a select few artists who are rough diamonds and who are keen on success and not the other fluff that goes on in here.
> what fluff ?
I'll try and stay away from the peacocks that wander round this blog and there are many of them.
> and who are they then ?
There are many people who like to help artists on this blog. Then there are people who just like to strut.
> Like who ?
I would like to consider myself a helper.
>what have you done then ?
Remember, a pessimist is just a loser in their infancy.
> that is not a definition of a pessimist - thats you making a comment
In the real world you snooze you lose.
>What other world is there ? There is this planet earth we live all live on and what is this other world you speak of ?
Don't pass up an opportunity whatever it may look like.
> What opportunity ? opportunity is generally non-spatial and non-physical and therefore it can not look like anything can it ?
I can't help but laugh at this straight up, retarded bullshit that's goin on.
Why so hostile funkcartel?
What's the difference between someone posting a youtube video of their recording/practice session and having a streming feed with live feedback?
There isn't much difference at all and setting up a system like that would be pretty simple. Shit, give me 4 hours and i'll cook up a flash webcam chatroom on my website.
It's simple, Matt gets in touch with the diamonds in the rough, if they have a webcam just book in a slot and that's it. That would be no different that clowning around in the studio and then posting it up on youtube.
This thread is for people to post ideas. What might seem like a crap idea to some could be a life changing thing for others.
Kang.
I do not intend to be hostile and if it seems that way then you have regretfully got the wrong idea - I am not one to kiss butt and I am not here to make friends with or be nice to A&R label executives. I am not here to boost their egos either.
This thread is full of artists giving ideas to the labels - but WHAT have they actually done ?
6 weeks isnt really a very long time for the big boys. But I must agree that there seems to be very little interest in some of the ideas.
. There are not as many serious people on here as itwould seem when taken at face value. i dont think the Vox population is as big as many would hope.
We made a bit of a mistake in this respect.
We ran with some of the ideas that have been aired on here.
An embedded player function---- we set it up and offered it,,,No Takers but we did get some complaints about where we put the player and the fact that it played automatically. It also shot our data transfer budget over 200 per cent,
Podcast...again we offered that ,,,No takers We tried to raise interest through a competition and got two entries,, neither of whom have bothered to send us material.
We have offered services that we do elsewhere FREE catco registrations...No takers
As we have feedback/counter facilities on the pages, we know they have been read. I think its just a numbers , or lack of thing .
It might be that people onjy come on here to wiggle their bums at the big boys, and otherwise dont want to put any effort into the discussion.
Dont forget that the big boys are BIG lumbering behemoths that take an age to do things. Its interesting to note that they only started to take an active interest here , following the introduction of the BBCs Introducing series (local radio and BBC6 trawling the net for tunes and airing them....explantion for our US friends)
We can act faster because we are small, only 4 workers. We were the first to release an album that resulted from Vox membership and from what i can see ,,,still the only one.!!!
But we dont have the clout of the big boys, so people find it easy to ignore our ideas and offers. In their eyes we have no value. That's ok.. our mission statement prohibits us from working with the gullible, those that are blinded by glory thoughts of shiny fame.
But its those types , albeit a dying breed , that are bound to requent such places as this... You cant work with people with bags over their heads.
There are a few of us in this thread that often feel we are but a voice in the wilderness.......my message is...keep on shouting.
It makes the rest of us feel a little better ..less isolated and gives us a warmglow and a hope for the future......keep it up.
Dave
You make a valid point there. We've made a lot of suggestions but very little has been taken on and moved upon but you've gotta think that the online team might not be a huge collection of people and developing new site features etc can be hard.
Also i way Vox is designed and laid out it doesn't seem all that user friendly to me. I'm just reading Gnome's reply as well and i had no clue about the Podcast feautre. Shit if i knew there would be a post cast i would have submitted material a long time back!
That's the one gripe i have with Vox... Rather than putting the important things on the main page we have a "This is good" and "Question of the day"! If there was a Podcast section where the Q of the day is with an option to submit material then i'm pretty damn sure you would get a great response.
The calander feature is a great addition but i can't get to it from the main page, i'm the type of person that wants everything smack bang infront of me when i load up Vox. To get to the calander i have to go via the CD blog! Pain in the arse is an understatement.
I think with Vox, the A&R and artists is the lack of transparency. We don't really know what's goin on behind the scene's. All we know is that some A&R have "seen artists and bands that have potential". I'm not hear to piss n moan about the A&R community because at the end of the day Vox is a leap forward in terms of connecting with "the big boys" but in some places it falls short and some may feel further from the labels than ever before.
Kang.
A lot of people sign up to this and then realise that it's more effort than they can be bothered to put in!
Updating your blog regularly and creating a presence... Something they can do on MySpace. They see Vox as ANOTHER thing they have to update on a regular basis.
What group were u posting in? I'll post in there and push it up to 3! haha
I think the problem with groups is the mutiple posting, people just sending tro all of the groups they are in, regardless; so everyone else realises that all groups are just the same so just read one , if at all. Very few group hosts do any vetting of posts, they probably havent realised that they can " remove from group " those little grey drop menus are really that noticeable.
Yes many people do see Vox as just another thing, even though its format is bt far better for active involvement Its dynamic is a bit wasted. it has so much more to offer than Myspace etc I am sure that ist worth hanging on though.
We tend to use it as an in house tool, moving stuff and messages back and forth, and sending out news to colleagues even proofreading. Its easier than having to do muttiple emails and attachments.,now that we have realised that there may not be any outsiders reading such.
By the way we still have podcast bandwidth and space that is already paid for , but unused. Quite happy to make it available if there is interest.
Yeah for sure man! The Podcast would only gain interest IF it was done via the label.
For example... If a label A&R posted saying "Here are the top acts from Vox this month" and the A&R going into detail as to why they are the top acts then, shit, i'd be more than happy to submit material.
It HAS TO come from the A&R though otherwise no one will give a shit! Also it has to be on the main page for it kick off. I mean posting a blog that gets buried after a couple of days isn't anything special now is it? Personally i don't see much use for the QOTD. Chuck that out the bastard window and use the space for a Podcast (or something similar) and it's game on.
Open up a "track dump" for 48 hours in which artists can submit one track to be considered for the Podcast. You'll know for sure how many "active" users/bands/artists there are on this site if you do something like that.
Personally i would love it if an A&R did a short video blog rather than a Podcast.
The video would go a lil something like this...
Intro - A&R introduces himself
Artists - Talks about the artists about to featured. How many are featured and who are they?
Track 1 - Talk about the track, talk about the sound.
Track 2 - 5 - Talk about the tracks and the sound.
Why? - Why were these tracks chosen above all of the others? What made the artists stand out?
Outro - Goodbye and the next track dump will be open on the [insert date here].
The A&R only has to do about 5 mins of chit chat, the rest of the time the music plays. Editing the vid and uploading it? Get some skivvy at the office to sort it out. All the A&R has to do is be VISIBLY ACTIVE on the blog.
IF the A&R's are too "busy" to do this then make me an elite user and i'll make a video blog! Fuck it, i might make one anyways and if it catches on i'll make some more! lol
One video blog that every month will make the Vox users so fuckin happy the A&R's will have a hard time keeping up with the "thank you" emails and messages... That i can promise you.
Think outside of the box! I've got so many ideas that would push Vox into the 23rd Century. Get with it peoples!
Kang.
But I get your pont. we use "over the shoulder" cams to record what we have been doing online, mainly to help remember what we have been listening to and where adding comments as we go and therefore saving time. Of course its probably illegal and we couldnt broadcast em, and i dont mean just the copyright thing.
So its should be easy for the A&R to do a session, especially if its only material that has been submitted.
Good thinking
I might just do a video blog and feature artists i think are pretty hot.
I've already got a few in mind so i'll hit them up with messages soon enough once i've got my game plan sorted :D
Kang.
Oh well, i'm gonna try and put a video of some sort together over the weekend, i haven't got any sessions booked so i'll a fair amount of time to check out a few more artists and dig out my camera! lol
Kang.
Beyond Belief - Please post your tracks in the A&R BLOG!!!!
The A&R won't trawl through this thread and then go to another site just to hear your music. Read the "how to" info.
Kang.
But I have to be convinced that they still come down here now its been "borrowed" by various activists
Actually i made a mistake. I called it a blog when in actual fact it's the A&R group.
Everyone who signs up to Vox is made a member of that group so whenever you create a post you have an option to "share with group(s)". Just select the A&R group and off you go! Bob's your uncle and Fanny's your aunt! lol
I just fly through the A&R group whenever i'm bored and just listen to music people have posted. Here is a link to the A&R group where everyone posts their demos - http://ar.sony.vox.com/
Kang.
Did you post your songs in the A&R group? You WON'T be given feedback in THIS thread so please don't ask for it here.
People give feedback if and when they see your music.
The A&R's will very rarely give feedback unless your music stands out to the point where it demands feedback from them.
Also, the A&R will most definitely not bother checking out music that isn't UPLOADED onto Vox. If your left a message saying "check out my website www.mymusic.com and listen to tracks 1-5" then there is no chance in hell anyone in hell will do that!
The rules for demo submission are simple... Read this for more info... http://columbiademos.vox.com/library/post/submissions-and-widgets.html
Good luck!
Kang.
Asking the A&R to visit your blog is the same as saying "check out out my website/MySpace".
Kang.
Theres around a 50 year range of ages on these sites and methods , mannerism and etiquette can be quite different to what you are perhaps used.
I know it can be galling at times, especially when you get comments that seem to misunderstand what you were trying to say and sometimes show no appreciation or background knowledge of where you are coming from. But that is Cyber space!! Not everyone reads the profile of other people before engaging in conversation..
I dont care , mow, what comments I get as longas my poor underpaid and very young minion doesnt have to readd too much swearing.
At least it shows that there is some passion for music and what we are trying to do, rather than the apathy that it is so easy to imagine.
Perhaps he can also point out what in its content he viewed as a personal attack.........
Perhaps he can also point out for everyone what in the personal message was
childish crap
Perhaps he could also point out why he considers it harrassment since harrassment is a serious accusation to make and it obvioulsy raises serious legal issues which need to be dealt with - don't they Matt
Perhaps he can also answer the questions i put to him in an earlier comment regarding his earlier comments
Or perhaps he would prefer to just ignore this posted comment as well
Perhaps it would be wise to get back to the point of this post as well after he has responded to these comments - although to be honest - i don't know if this post has a point anymore - do u Mr Matt White
Or is there some dynamic room on here that allows you to see all the demos at once? I would be all over that.
looks like some one has been snoozing and adding to useless to make them more useless
YES there is a place that does exactly that already in existence and more
sigh
You are keen to name drop though are you not - glory by association is it ?
You said
I've spent this week helping engineer an album for John Williams's (Star Wars) grandson.
Where, in the studio you work in, where you probably get paid. That is not helping, thats doing a job and earning a living.
As for : skepticisms, conjectured assumptions, pontiff attitude - very impressive words but totally irrelevant...........
As for you questions - well, since i am more courteous than you, I shall actually answer for you.
You asked
Why are you on here if you're not looking for musical assistance in some way?
Well, if you took a look around and took a look at my blog you could discover all that for yourself, but since you obviously can't be bothered I shall tell you. To help other people without making a penny in my free time and also during my working day - in fact - at any time because I am actually very nice like that.
Also I enjoy the benefits of global communication with hundreds of other people in the world and they, like me, enjoy mass media communication and see Vox as a window on the world. I like them like to get invlolved with those with shared interests and ideals etc.
You said
Does your cynicism, pessimism, and skepticism do anyone on here any good?
I have no idea what you are getting at - once again - nice flourish and use of diction, but please, give me an example of that - can you ?
You said
At least some people are taking time out of their daily lives to give artists a helping hand.
Thats a general non specific statement - would u like to be more specific since helping out the rich and famous just does not make me adore you?
And final point - You said
Okay, I'll give funk the benefit of the doubt for 2 seconds
Thats either ridiculous or just damned hilarious - either way - i'm laughing again
This argument just reminded me of a funny video i saw on youtube a few weeks ago...
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z48-gKV5eds&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z48-gKV5eds&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
Enjoy! lolll
Kang.
Bloody embed!!
Here's the link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z48-gKV5eds
Kang.
my little brother has got my password to write this.
I think the hub of the problem is one of culture difference and specifically about name dropping.
No matter where we came from originally , more recent popular culture has conditioned us. On this side of the big Pond we have laughed at name dropping skits in comedy programmes..." my dad used to deliver milk to Elton Johns cousin's dentist" and " its a celebrity team with David hamilton's next door neighbour and a Goody, if he can make it" etc etc.
So its easy for us to read people posting and including famous names with some degree of suspicion. At first we may think its a joke, and that governs all of the subsequent attitude and may mean a contempt for anything else that is said. So it become easy, on here, although perhaps wrong,to think we have found another of the flakes and fakes with have whom we have had some problems in the past.
On the other side of the Pond, being able to mention a relationship with someone who might be known , is seen as a form of kudos ,or, more so online , integrity.
This difference of culture can be quite a problem, Even more so on here. If you go through all of the posts on the A&r threads/blogs on here, you will notice quite a few posts from people that havent realised its a UK only thing with very little direct impact anywhere else.
That makes me wonderhow Indieboy is getting on with getting his american cousins to do a similar thing.
oh dear my litle brother can get quite serious
Personally i don't see a problem with name dropping if it's used in the right situation for example taking on a project and reassuring a client as to why you're the right person for the job. You can name drop if you've worked with them so it's all good. Name dropping for the sake of name dropping is pointless.
I agree with what you say about the americans and name dropping. Over there it's most definitely a kudos thing. Over it's a similar thing but it's not as major as it is over in the States.
I think one of the biggest problems with Vox is that it's marketed as a "blog to keep intouch with family and friends" but in actual fact it's a way to interact with SonyBMG and the A&R. That's probably why there are so many non UK artists signing up and posting, not that it's a bad thing because networking is networking on my opinion. I just think Vox could be designed a lot better to be more user friendly and transparent for the type of service that it is.
I kind of drifted a bit there but oh well!
Kang.
Its strange how things change.
I, and my pals originally joined vox, exactly for the friends and families thing. Which worked well, found lots of old friends and some (ex)family.
But because we originally knew one another in the early music scene of a particular city,and because most are still now actively involved in the industry thats what most of our traffic, open and private, music led.
I have said before that i am as guilty as anyone here of using it as a business extension. But the difficulty is that the business and friendship are so entwined.
I like to think that most of activities are friend based, even though it include new found friends
I shall try and keep that thought foremost in my mind.
But .Yes networking is networking is good!
I can't imagine whatSony/bmg might have to say on the matter..
If they've just gone and jumped on the back of an existing service then i thing that's a really bad move on the labels part. They should keep "standard" social networking and demo submissions seperate, now i can see why Vox is designed and laid out the way it is because it's primary demographic is social blogging rather than demo submissions.
I don't see anything wrong with using Vox as a "business exension". I've been so raw in my approach on here! If someone stands out to me i approach them. If i make some friends during the process then fair enough but my main aim here is to increase my industry know how and get my music heard by the right people.
For non business networking i use facebook. I like to keep the two 100% seperate! lol
Kang.
I was a bit surprised when they turned up, but I have no idea of the exact business relationship at all.
Mind you Vox is so very good for music files, Thats what the people who attracted us here were using for, in association with various nostalgia trips
There could be little nests of people networking on other themes and maybe we just dont spot them.
D
Hey if anyone wants me to give them a review of their music I would love to do so. I haven't been on here in a while, have been in the process of moving to a new studio, but would love to get back on the bandwagon with giving a bit of advice on people's stuff. I've thought about starting a thing where people have their own live web cams and I chime in with them while they play their music and I let them know what they could different to make their music more approachable. Any way guys. Talk to you soon.
I will be blunt and brief - Here is an example - This morning at roughly 6 A.M an artist in Italy finished recording the last track on his latest album, he is independent - by 6.30 A.M i had heard it 4 times, by 9 A.M i had promoted his new recording and within an hour or two - 300 people has heard it. I also announced it at Vox and members at vox found the audio and loved it.
Someone else commented on the track and i replied to them that it would be great to have the audio in the vox groups here - with no direct communication between me and the artist being made, the recording turned up in the vox group with 2 more recordings from his album in addition.
His recording is now being heard across the planet and it was all done in hours without a penny being spent - it just took a bit of effort. This kind of thing is happening everyday it is just that people dont seem to notice it, especillau the label staff.
Also, many of these artists that have been totally ignored or silently dismissed are actually aligning fast, they are soon to put out compilations via many on-line dd stores and if successful cd's will be put out in retail stores.
I ended a recent comment on Indieboys blog with a statement that I shall repeat here because I think it is apt.
The dominant reign of the major labels is soon to be over. The artists do not need Sony or RCA or Columbia anymore - seriously, they dont. some of them think they do but they do not.
Sony, RCA and Columbia etc etc etc need artists. Soon, labels will have to set up blogs and submit requests to represent artists and the labels will be ignored and silently dismissed.
I can sense you may be thinking that is funny so i will add this.
That is already happening and it will become the norm very soon.
Keep being slow please, because it will mean your lose and our gain. Be happy
Damn skippy we emerging artists don't need the labels. The indie market as a whole is OUTSELLING the majors (excluding ringtone and overseas sales)!!! Believe it or not i'm right. I too know a few industry cats! Meow! haha
Indie music is music that people want to hear, music released by majors is more or less music that we are CONDITIONED to like. If your hear a track on Radio 1 that is playlisted 30 times you'll find yourself humming it to yourself every now and again,
That's why in Hip Hop there are artists who make more money as unsigned acts then they do if they are signed. Rapper Rick Ross used to make $1m a year on the underground scene and last year he said getting signed was a big mistake because now he makes less money than he did before the deal... hmmmm... Interesting. No? Another rapper, Immortal Technique refuses to sign to a major. Why? 2 reasons... He makes more money on the underground scene and he wants to have 100% control over the music HE makes! He doesn't want an A&R who knows nothing about hip hop to come along and say "hey, rap about blunts, hoes and cars". Immortal Technique is a modern day poet with some real things to talk about and a label would know doubt fuck that up!
So far the only genres that are STILL making (some) money is pop, rock, country and classical. Classical and country is by far making the most money,
Kang.
Kang.
No matter how good you are or how much money you make you will still need something with expertise to act as an interface with the Industry (and the government)
We speak to artists that are in fact doing quite nicely , but only about 5 percent have a Pid, know what an ISRC is, just can't understand why their tracks are not counted for the mainstream charts, and dont have a clue about royalty collection.
But what is really worse is the number that havent kept any accounts. Bang suddenly there is a estimated demand from the tax man for a couple of grand, along with a fine for a couple of hundred for not submitting a tax return.
You dont need to be famous to attract the taxbot, there is a special one for Myspace.
And the number of people who think they can protect the copyright on there songs just by posting them to themselves would be hilarious if it wasnt so frightening.
Ok . all of these and the publicity , plugging , press releases, photography etc plus getting all of those cds into the post., but wouldnt they prefer to making and mixing music.
No matter how good you are or how much money you make you will still need something with expertise to act as an interface with the Industry (and the government)
We speak to artists that are in fact doing quite nicely , but only about 5 percent have a Pid, know what an ISRC is, just can't understand why their tracks are not counted for the mainstream charts, and dont have a clue about royalty collection.
But what is really worse is the number that havent kept any accounts. Bang suddenly there is a estimated demand from the tax man for a couple of grand, along with a fine for a couple of hundred for not submitting a tax return.
You dont need to be famous to attract the taxbot, there is a special one for Myspace.
And the number of people who think they can protect the copyright on there songs just by posting them to themselves would be hilarious if it wasnt so frightening.
Ok . all of these and the publicity , plugging , press releases, photography etc plus getting all of those cds into the post., but wouldnt they prefer to making and mixing music
Mind you this has all been said before.
jeez this thread really is getting long and slow to reload
Hi
My comment about Vox is this: I believe that the majority of artists are on this site to be heard by the big labels. You are not on this site to be heard by your audience. The labels want a more cost effective and efficient way of hearing new acts and this is excllent for them and probably a lot more interesting than playing CD's. I am sure that if we all keep plugging away, we will get heard eventually by someone.
However, I don't believe that many, if any acts will get 'signed' by this alone. It's the whole package isn't it? The label wants to know that this act will 'sell' and make them money. So they're gonna check you out in depth if they like your music long before they talk to you. So you might be good, but can you sell records?
So my idea is this: Vox needs a radio station that will play to a large public audience. The radio station might be online (like Soupygators excellent site) and it should have links RSS feeds perhaps to other sites such as Myspace or Facebook that have large public audiences. People could select favourite acts and vote for them. That way the labels could get a public response before they sign anyone up. It would be like a survey or test market.
Really I think the big labels should go one better than this though. How about a freeview channel of unsigned acts? You send in your video online as you would do on Youtube, they are reviewed and aired. There would be a cover charge and entry fee to cover costs, but essentially I see this as a big future for the unsigned world.
There simply isn't the room for everyone to be stars selling millions. Music shouldn't be about this anyway. It is about getting people to listen to and appreciate what we do. If we can find a way of making money at this in some way great, but perhaps we should wipe the stars out of our eyes and just dig the music.
The label wants to know that this act will 'sell' and make them money
Exactly - that is what they want - to make money out of us artists and i say forget the label - put your own audio file out to the market through all the digital download stores and keep the profits yourself - cut out the middle men - the artists don't need labels - there are comments above saying they do - from the labels - well its rubbish - they do NOT and i will argue with anyone who says different. What would labels do without artists - they would go out of business that what they would do and that is exactly what is going to happen - give it a few years and see who's laughing last - the cat among the pigeons or the labels - place your bets now please.
So my idea is this: Vox needs a radio station that will play to a large public audience.
Well thats a great idea but I have already done that Paul so its old hat